state your beliefs here.

[mpp]

Originally posted by jczeroman

Ultimately they put faith in an absolute to define their theory of relativism... the hypocricy is astounding.

ahh, i see

since i said cultural relativism is right, i'm using an absolute


nigga, what i mean is that cultural relativism is right FOR ME; for the way i see the world around me; i don't think america should go around the world busting down doors and "helping others"; many people do and that's why we do it; a lot of peopel don't care about others and their ways of life, but i do (i'm not saying you don't b/c i think you do care about others)

[mpp]

i did not mean "easier," as "simpler"...i meant "easier" as more right...bad choice of words


questions for you:

1. Do you think one culture should force its absolutist views on another?
2. Do you think one culture is right and another is wrong? For example, do you think it's fundamentally wrong (no argument at all necessary or even imaginable) for one culture to be polytheistic and another to be monotheistic?

If your answers to these are "yes" then we will never come to any kind of understanding b/c we are at opposite ends of the spectrum as far as how to treat others.

If your answers to these are "no" then what are you talking about? What relevance does "absolutism" have in the world if you don't want to apply it?

[mpp]

eeeeeeeeeeeeedit

[jczeroman]

Originally posted by mpp

nigga, what i mean is that cultural relativism is right FOR ME; for the way i see the world around me;

And i think that's fine. Everybody has a right to believe what they want. All I am saying is that it is possible to be wrong.

[mpp]

Originally posted by jczeroman

All I am saying is that it is possible to be wrong.

RELATIVISM!!

[Debaser]

I read about this in some newspaper article. It talked about 10 guys who ate dinner at a certain restaurant every week and the bill was a set figure: $100. The bill was split according to the way we pay taxes. Therefore, the four poorest guys paid nothing; guy #5 paid $1; guy 6 paid $3; guy 7 paid $7; guy 8, $12; guy 9 paid $18 and the richest guy paid $59.

The owner of the restaurant decided to give them a discount and only charge $80 for the meal. If the ones who paid anything split the $20 evenly, they each saved $3.33, which meant guys 5 and 6 were now being paid to eat their meal.

The restaurant owner suggested each guy who actually paid get the same discount as the group (20%). Guy 5 now paid 80 cents; guy 6, $2.40; guy 7, $5.60; guy 8, $9.60; guy 9, $14.40 and guy 10 now paid $47.20 instead of $59.

Guy 6 complained, "I only got 60 cents of the $20 and #10 got $11.80!" Guy 5 agreed, stating "I only got 20 cents and #10 got almost 60 times more than me." Guy 7: "Why should I get only $1.40 and #10 get almost $12? This plan caters to the wealthy!"

Guys 1-4 chimed in, "We're not getting anything; this plan exploits the poor!"

The next time they ate, guy #10 decided he had had enough and did not attend. Guys 1-9 paid their new "rates" and guess what? They came up $47.20 short.

Tax the wealthy too much, and they may not show up at the table.

[jczeroman]

Originally posted by mpp

1. Do you think one culture should force its absolutist views on another?

Absolutely not. I do believe in the presentation of fact and that there are such things as facts, yet if a person or culture ever did not want facts form anyone other then themselves or their culture then it should be respected.

Originally posted by mpp
2. Do you think one culture is right and another is wrong? For example, do you think it's fundamentally wrong (no argument at all necessary or even imaginable) for one culture to be polytheistic and another to be monotheistic?

Again, no -- a culture or religious system should be whatever it's participants desire it to be, nothing more. Any attempt by another culture to "force" it's ideas on another culture is wrong. I would be fine if a culture wanted to present to another culture why it's culture was better and therefore should be adopted. Yet if the origianl culture rejected such an offer then it shoudl be withotu consequences. My belief in absolutes affords me the "faith" in natural rights: life, liberty, and the pusuit of happiness. I accept these rights an inherent to all men. I will not force these rights on other men if they don't want them, I will respect their culture and set of codes.

Originally posted by mpp
If your answers to these are "no" then what are you talking about? What relevance does "absolutism" have in the world if you don't want to apply it?

Because I care more for people's free will then for their "need" to know what I or anyone else has found to be truth. I also believe that people who want to find truth will find it, and people who don't will make up excuses. I believe that anyoen has the right to refuse anything, the individual has full rights over everything within themselves. No one has the right to force anything upon another without consent, period, no culture, no religion, no war, nothing period.

You seem to affirm that cultures have a right to be soveregn, where does this come from, as rights have to be based on absolutes?

[jczeroman]

Originally posted by Debaser
story

I've heard that before. A well done piece of work that was.

[crescentfresh]

Originally posted by Debaser


Tax the wealthy too much, and they may not show up at the table.

Rich people need to eat, too.

[jczeroman]

Originally posted by Debaser
Tax the wealthy too much, and they may not show up at the table.

The rich guy should have just bought the restaraunt.

[D.]

I believe the sun should never set upon an argument
I believe we place our happiness in other people's hands
I believe that junk food tastes so good because it's bad for you
I believe your parents did the best job they knew how to do
I believe that beauty magazines promote low self esteem
I believe I'm loved when I'm completely by myself alone

I believe in Karma what you give is what you get returned
I believe you can't appreciate real love until you've been burned
I believe the grass is no more greener on the other side
I believe you don't know what you've got until you say goodbye

I believe you can't control or choose your sexuality
I believe that trust is more important than monogamy
I believe your most attractive features are your heart and soul
I believe that family is worth more than money or gold

I believe the struggle for financial freedom is unfair
I believe the only ones who disagree are millionaires

I believe in Karma what you give is what you get returned
I believe you can't appreciate real love until you've been burned
I believe the grass is no more greener on the other side
I believe you don't know what you've got until you say goodbye

I believe forgiveness is the key to your unhappiness
I believe that wedded bliss negates the need to be undressed
I believe that God does not endorse TV evangelists
I believe in love surviving death into eternity

I believe in Karma what you give is what you get returned
I believe you can't appreciate real love until you've been burned
I believe the grass is no more greener on the other side
I believe you don't know what you've got until you say goodbye

[crescentfresh]

Originally posted by David

I believe the sun should never set upon an argument

I believe you can't appreciate real love until you've been burned

I believe you don't know what you've got until you say goodbye

I believe you can't control or choose your sexuality

I

aww, apologise to ******.

[D.]

Originally posted by crescentfresh


aww, apologise to ******.

lol

naw we really don't like each other. no hidden love, i promise.

[mpp]

Originally posted by jczeroman

You seem to affirm that cultures have a right to be soveregn, where does this come from, as rights have to be based on absolutes?

cultures don't have any absolute, sovereign, endowed rights

that's hocus pocus; ethereal


where do these "inalienable rights" come from? endowed by our creator, right? so that means that one culture (the one with the biggest guns, for example...sound familiar?) gets to make up which rights each culture gets? you have the right to life, liberty, etc as long as we want you to have them (the draft in 1970's??)


however, I BELIEVE that different cultures should be respected; relatively, the way different cultures do their thing is cool w/ me and it's not my place to say whether it's right or wrong b/c i have "absolutely" no "right" to do so

[jczeroman]

Originally posted by mpp

however, I BELIEVE that different cultures should be respected; relatively, the way different cultures do their thing is cool w/ me and it's not my place to say whether it's right or wrong b/c i have "absolutely" no "right" to do so

ok one last chance before I just say "fuck it" and (because we can't argue in circles forever)

the principle, your principle, where does it come from? How do you decide your principles? And why is it that your principle is just as right as mine? Essentially, you seem to be saying that YOU BELIEVE "different cultures should be respected; relatively" yet what are you basing this belief on? Or will you freely admit that this argument has no basis?

I leave to tennessee tonight, so we have to hurry up.

[mpp]

Originally posted by jczeroman

I leave to tennessee tonight, so we have to hurry up.

i think we should move this to PM's to spare netphoria more pain

sorry netphoria

anyway, i am leaving for atlanta tomorrow morning, so we can continue this on PM; i'll be back at a computer this weekend


just to state briefly for anyone remotely interested in the "debate" on relativism vs. absolutism: when i was younger, i was an absolutist; i thought that the world was based on maxims and laws and natural rights and absolute morality, etc etc; then i went to college and i discovered that most of the things that i thought and other people like me thought, others didn't think; i started to realize that cultural relativism and moral relativism made more sense than absolutism; the reason for this is that the world works this way; human beings everywhere think so differently; many cultures think the way they think and feel about the world is absolutely right and that all others are wrong; from this premise, one CANNOT immediately draw the conclusion that absolutism is an incorrect way of looking at the world, but one MAY draw the conclusion that a BETTER WAY TO LOOK AT THE WORLD is relativism

just b/c relativism is not "more right" that absolutism does not mean that's it's not equally important/right

the bases for my arguments are applied anthropology, common sense, and the way i view the world and the people who live on it

respond to this here, if you want; then i'll PM you

[Crippler]

Originally posted by ShinyMcShine
Folks, let me sum it up for you: I think religion is bad and drugs are good.

I think America causes cancer, longevity is less important than fun, and young people should be discouraged from voting.

I think stereotypes are true, abstinence is a perversion, Bush's lies are worse than Clinton's and there's nothing sexy about being old or pregnant.

I think September 11th changed nothing and if I had known the onset of war would add 100 points to George Bush's IQ, I would have started one.

I think pornography stops rape, AIDS ribbons are stupid, and flag burning makes me feel patriotic.

I think death is not the worst thing that can happen to you, people have too much self-esteem, and being drunk is funny. I think children are not innocent, God doesn't write books, and Jesus wasn't a Republican.

I'm for Mad Cow disease and against suing tobacco companies.

I think girls hate each other, no doesn't always mean no, you have to lie to stay married, women's sports are boring and the Olympics are gay

All at once chauvanistic and liberal. God bless "common sense."

Bill Maher, you're my hero.

[mirrar]

i don't believe in organized religion
i believe that it is possible to find ones connection to and place within the grand scheme of things, and to feel spiritually complete from that
I believe in some sort of higher power, but by no means a god.
i believe in the power of friendship and love
I believe that nothing is for certain
I believe, to a certain extent, in reincarnation
I believe in ghosts
I believe that things have a way of working out, and if they don't, they weren't supposed to anyway and something better will come about.
I believe that there are some things that no one is ever going to be able to understand, and that it's definately for the best.
I believe that anyone who causes needless pain and suffering to animals should die a slow, horrible death
Decent people do recieve rewards for their behaviour, obvious or not.
It's useless to sit around and complain about the state of things if you don't plan to do something to change them.

[Ugly]

I BELIEVE IN ONE NATION UNITED UNDER ROCK!!!

http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/job.../guitarist.jpg