roes and roes of fuzzy gold

[Run To Me]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

You know, I'm not really sure. I guess If I wanna read something I don't wanna read a bunch of made up hysteria. It's an art-form I just haven't been into. But I suppose I should be more open minded.

Cause I've read pretty much every music biography that exists and pretty much other that public entity that interests me. I mean I've got Jodie Sweetens book coming in for crying out loud.

Any good suggestions?

Hmmm, interesting, many of my conservative-minded friends/acquaintances share a similar distaste for novels

IMHO really great, literary fiction is an unmatched vehicle for teaching empathy, b/c it requires one to imagine the world as experienced by people that may be radically unlike oneself

[Elphenor]

Horror novels are cool

[Run To Me]

Like, after reading, for example, Upton Sinclair's timeless classic The Jungle, one might hesitate before backing a president whose party wants to systematically destroy unions and grant employers total freedom to recreate the kind of horror-show working conditions that dominated during the industrial revolution

[ohnoitsbonnie]

Originally Posted by Run To Me

Hmmm, interesting, many of my conservative-minded friends/acquaintances share a similar distaste for novels

IMHO really great, literary fiction is an unmatched vehicle for teaching empathy, b/c it requires one to imagine the world as experienced by people that may be radically unlike oneself

This is a great post and point but he might just be stupid

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by Run To Me

Like, after reading, for example, Upton Sinclair's timeless classic The Jungle, one might hesitate before backing a president whose party wants to systematically destroy unions and grant employers total freedom to recreate the kind of horror-show working conditions that dominated during the industrial revolution

Echoing bonnie this is great and all but this is fuzzy

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Run To Me

Hmmm, interesting, many of my conservative-minded friends/acquaintances share a similar distaste for novels

IMHO really great, literary fiction is an unmatched vehicle for teaching empathy, b/c it requires one to imagine the world as experienced by people that may be radically unlike oneself

in the book i'm reading for a special topics class, the author thinks the printing press and the proliferation of novels is one of the biggest reason for the reduction in violent crime, government sponsored torture (for info and entertainment) and wars in the past few hundred years. because it allowed people to expand their field of empathy beyond their immediate family/friends

[ohnoitsbonnie]

Somehow art moves us to feel for others that just seeing alone doesn't accomplish.

[Disco King]

Originally Posted by reprise85

in the book i'm reading for a special topics class, the author thinks the printing press and the proliferation of novels is one of the biggest reason for the reduction in violent crime, government sponsored torture (for info and entertainment) and wars in the past few hundred years. because it allowed people to expand their field of empathy beyond their immediate family/friends

That's Pinker, right? Sounds plausible that novels could help people empathize and have noticeable effects on a society, but I haven't read up on this hypothesis to see if a claim as strong as his is really supported.

A book I read for my political science honours class (Benedict Anderson's Imagined Communities) says that the novel was important to the rise of nationalism, because it gave people a sense of their society beyond people they have direct contact with in their immediate surroundings, so the idea of a "nation" (an "imagined community," because people in it sense that they are part of the same community as other people like them whom they've never even met before) could arise. Having synchronic narratives in which events could occur at the same time gave people an understanding that, even if they aren't in direct contact, others in their "nation" are existing and acting at the same moment they are.

[ohnoitsbonnie]

I have a job and pay for my schooling and I will happily finish. I am not willing to take on the debt.

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Run To Me

IMHO really great, literary fiction is an unmatched vehicle for teaching empathy, b/c it requires one to imagine the world as experienced by people that may be radically unlike oneself

there is at least 1 study that has linked reading classic literature to higher levels of empathy

Originally Posted by Disco King

A book I read for my political science honours class (Benedict Anderson's Imagined Communities) says that the novel was important to the rise of nationalism, because it gave people a sense of their society beyond people they have direct contact with in their immediate surroundings, so the idea of a "nation" (an "imagined community," because people in it sense that they are part of the same community as other people like them whom they've never even met before) could arise. Having synchronic narratives in which events could occur at the same time gave people an understanding that, even if they aren't in direct contact, others in their "nation" are existing and acting at the same moment they are.

that's interesting but I'm not sure I see nationalism as having started like... in the last few thousand years. Nationalism is just tribalism at a larger level. I think the words can usually be used interchangeably. When hundreds of thousands of Visigoths tore across Europe and Asia toppling Rome, I don't think they needed books to construct an imagined community to know they all belonged to one huge tribe and everyone else could get fucked, right?

[redbreegull]

I guess you could say nationality, culture, and tribe are myths, and improved technology like the printing press made it much easier to spread information, including myths obviously. So perhaps (like probably) the printing press played a role in the evolution of the modern nation state. But feelings of national superiority I think are as old as people

[LaBelle]

I am anti borders.

That doesn't mean I wish red would lose his job tho.

[redbreegull]

even chimpanzees demonstrate very clear cultural in/outgrouping. chimps in different places have demonstrably different "cultures" even down to the kinds of tools they know how to use, and they will wage systematic warfare against other groups of chimps.

[FlamingGlobes]

[myosis]

nationalism does not necessarily mean feelings of national superiority.
what about people under tyranny advocating national independence from an assimilating nation?

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Disco King

That's Pinker, right? Sounds plausible that novels could help people empathize and have noticeable effects on a society, but I haven't read up on this hypothesis to see if a claim as strong as his is really supported.

A book I read for my political science honours class (Benedict Anderson's Imagined Communities) says that the novel was important to the rise of nationalism, because it gave people a sense of their society beyond people they have direct contact with in their immediate surroundings, so the idea of a "nation" (an "imagined community," because people in it sense that they are part of the same community as other people like them whom they've never even met before) could arise. Having synchronic narratives in which events could occur at the same time gave people an understanding that, even if they aren't in direct contact, others in their "nation" are existing and acting at the same moment they are.

Yeah, it's Pinker.

Honestly the book DOES make a ton of very tenuous assumptions but that hypothesis is interesting. He fills in a lot of data that is unknowable, is the biggest problem with the book's premise I think. Regardless, it's obvious violence has declined and he does make good points. But estimating data and then applying multipliers and shit to it to make a point looks pretty bad and he does that a lot. He also needed a better editor. But there has been a lot of interesting stuff

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

even chimpanzees demonstrate very clear cultural in/outgrouping. chimps in different places have demonstrably different "cultures" even down to the kinds of tools they know how to use, and they will wage systematic warfare against other groups of chimps.

chimps pick unfair fights as well, they patrol, they engage in genocide, fight for sexual partners, etc

[qwerty sp]

Chimps are bad people

[FlamingGlobes]

Originally Posted by qwerty sp

Chimps are bad people

SPECIESIST BITCH!

[ohnoitsbonnie]

I would if I had the money

[ohnoitsbonnie]

Before I was cut off by my parents or I guess became too ashamed to take from them (cuz I was 23 when I started) I was full time. But my pride and fear of debt is getting in the way now I guess. Do you have anything to do but lay into me?

[ohnoitsbonnie]

I am taking 5 courses over the summer but that's thousands of dollars to put up front. I'm using my student tax credit on that.

[ohnoitsbonnie]

this is a real point of anxiety for me

[reprise85]

fuck you poots

[reprise85]

fucking college is expensive, plus living is expensive, i work a little, go full time, get a lot of grants etc and still take out almost the max loans

[myosis]

[redbreegull]

we need one with the quote about alcohol being a harmless drug with no adverse effects

[FoolofaTook]

Students loans ain't no joke. I did college and a year of grad school for free (scholarships/grants/parents discount for being employees of schopl).

Then in one year of masters and another of phd i got up to 40,000 in debt. fuck.

[buzzard]

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by myosis

You're still butthurt about that?