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04-09-2015, 05:39 PM | #1 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,695
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Chrysanthemum - a wish unwished, a hope unhoped
what an amazing song. i think this is one of the most clear-headed and optimistic songs Bill's ever written. the pumpkins break up and end at the metro with a funereal final concert that ends with one of the most brutal and anguished Silverfucks they ever performed. His heart is broken and he cries on stage but is too embarrassed to show it and doesn't allow himself the catharsis of letting his behemoth band and his entire life up to that point die. Instead of carrying on with Jimmy and other players, he killed the band out of a misplaced loyalty in James as a brother in arms, that once he lost interest and didn't want to be there, he had a duty to retire what they had started. And then the guy leaves the Metro that night without saying goodbye to Billy or Jimmy.
I'm not surprised Billy still says shit like "James Iha is one of the worst human beings I've ever met." that must've been incredibly traumatic - to realize you just drove your life's work into the dirt out of loyalty and respect for a man you thought was a comrade, a lifelong friend, however delusional that might've been in 2000, and then to have him dip out without saying goodbye. That is the single event that will never bring Billy and James together again. it's really sad. So less than a year later, Billy and Jimmy are back with a new band, and Chrysanthemum is the first post-Pumpkins song. It's not bitter, pissed off, or at all concerned with dwelling on the past (Bill's forté). it's a beautifully simple and transcendent song and lyric that has a lot of similarities with Muzzle - totally open, honest, reflective, with no excuses or blame laid. "yesterday" was great, but it's time to move on, and here we are. it's one of the few times post-Pumpkins, before Oceania, when he writes a riff in 'classic pumpkins' style and doesn't qualify it like "untitled" with some bullshit "see i can still do it nananana." such a shame that Zwan is a footnote joke in rock history now. yesterday you still seemed all right you'd still hold me tight and whisper me my name now the time has come to let this go there i go walking straight but backwards there i go talking upside down there i go there i go singing slow but faster there i go dragging love around there i go staying up to find the way you'll always let me bloom i am a part of everything you've loved and hated so you know i'd pay a lot to cry, to try to understand a flower's still a flower crushed to dust inside my hand we were going somewhere we were going somewhere yesterday you still seemed so bold you'd still draw the road i'd always walk upon now i've paid for mistakes i've made for the way i've strayed and never taken pause now the time has come to let this show there i go walking straight but backwards there i go talking upside down there i go there i go singing slow but faster there i go dragging love around there i go there i go singing slow but faster sometimes up inside my youth, to wear a troubled crown you know i'd pay a lot to cry, to try to understand a flower's still a flower crushed to dust inside my hand we were going somewhere we were going somewhere we were going somewhere yesterday yesterday yesterday yesterday we were going somewhere we were going somewhere |
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04-09-2015, 05:45 PM | #2 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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idk about anyone else, but most of the (early at least) songs seemed really confessional/autobiographical - like i was taking the lyrics as serious fucking business. i mean this song was the very first thing you heard of zwan - it was such a rush. like really packed to the brim and bursting. that said, pure energy aside - there are much better zwan songs. |
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04-09-2015, 05:58 PM | #3 |
dumb
Location: $8.6 million embezzled funds
Posts: 11,368
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fucking yes.
JC kills on the drums for this too. I do really enjoy the fact that the first word he sang post-pumpkins was 'yesterday' There are so many good Zwan songs...like all these 2001 rock shows, then those acoustic shows in Indy that were comprised of entirely different songs. There are two damn good albums there! And then MSOTS happened. |
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04-09-2015, 05:59 PM | #4 |
Immortal
Location: like liutenant dan i'm rollin'
Posts: 21,016
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04-09-2015, 07:22 PM | #5 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: AA meetings
Posts: 4,026
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I was listened to this today, I love spilled milk too, the guitar parts
I didn't read your text though, sorry |
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04-09-2015, 08:52 PM | #6 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,115
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Zwan was fun
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04-09-2015, 09:11 PM | #7 |
Demi-God
Location: NY, NY, USA
Posts: 345
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ruined in the studio. typical bald cunt.
the pre-album material might not have been as pop or condensed concise song writing, but it was honest and full of life. billy blames the band, but the clown is too blind (even in hindsight) that he disrespected them treating them like children and making them do as he wanted. fuck that cunt. |
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04-09-2015, 09:23 PM | #8 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: AA meetings
Posts: 4,026
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in a nutshell [2]
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04-09-2015, 09:28 PM | #9 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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04-10-2015, 05:03 AM | #10 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,408
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These Maide Vale UK sessions still sound fantastic to me. They could've pulled off a fantastic album had they only recorded an album that's essentially polished studio live recordings. |
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04-10-2015, 11:45 AM | #11 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,695
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the ending riff is really similar to Jellybelly, maybe "we were going somewhere" is a reference to "we're nowhere to be"
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04-11-2015, 09:11 PM | #12 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 3,773
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Man people were still stoked for corgan back then. He really had something there with that first batch of songs and then it all went to shit.
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04-11-2015, 09:51 PM | #13 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: The Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,226
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04-11-2015, 10:30 PM | #14 |
Pledge
Posts: 74
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What's the best sounding version of Chrysanthemum available?
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04-11-2015, 10:46 PM | #15 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,695
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the first show. second performance is really messy, jimmy must've been railed or something
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04-11-2015, 11:22 PM | #16 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: The Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,226
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Quote:
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04-11-2015, 11:44 PM | #17 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,115
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04-11-2015, 11:45 PM | #18 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,115
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old school tom foolery on that one
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04-12-2015, 12:36 AM | #19 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,408
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04-12-2015, 12:44 AM | #20 |
dumb
Location: $8.6 million embezzled funds
Posts: 11,368
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It sounds like Learn to Fly
Quality song though I think Never Give Up has very popular, catchy, radio-y lyrics and riffs. Good song |
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04-12-2015, 12:29 PM | #21 |
Pledge
Posts: 74
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04-12-2015, 12:29 PM | #22 | |
Pledge
Posts: 74
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Quote:
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04-16-2015, 12:52 PM | #23 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: boar city, countryside of munich
Posts: 1,113
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I really hope a studio version of this magically appears someday
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04-16-2015, 05:09 PM | #24 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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i would just like for the NO SBDS thing to be lifted from the zwan archive.
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04-16-2015, 05:10 PM | #25 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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somebody should start uploading them as AUDSBD
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04-16-2015, 05:12 PM | #26 |
Demi-God
Location: NY, NY, USA
Posts: 345
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didn't we trade those out on theHUB anyways?
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04-16-2015, 06:35 PM | #27 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: boar city, countryside of munich
Posts: 1,113
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ask the rat bastard maybe? what up with fogelsong?
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04-17-2015, 12:54 PM | #28 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 4,404
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Good to see that Corganist returned under the guise of "Grox," toting the standard 'Billy is perfection.' attitude.
There was a shit ton of potential for post-Pumpkins. I don't recall what happened but for some reason I was offline when Zwan began to break, and when I came back, it was done, I had missed the boat and the pulse on something that could have been cool to get into. To this day, it's just not what it could have been for me. |
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04-17-2015, 04:23 PM | #29 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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I havent done a fuck ton of research but i think the glass house dat-re-transfer is the best sounding early show
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09-21-2019, 06:39 PM | #30 |
dumb
Location: $8.6 million embezzled funds
Posts: 11,368
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