So, is Bill Crosby a rapist?

[The exploding boy]

And i'm very ok with telling women to take precautions.

How you cant reconcile that with me saying its never their fault because ultimately, if there wasnt a rapist, they couldn't be getting raped, is what i don't get.

[fuzzyroes]

The truth is women shouldn't have to worry about this kind of thing but a large majority of men are just fucking scumbags... You think of all the evil people in the world and they're always almost men.

[hnibos]

He thinks there is no emphasis in getting to the root of the problem, getting the raper to stop raping.

Of course colleges should educate on not raping but if bad shit happens at sketch bar down the road it might be wise to tell vulnerable people don't go by yourself to sketch bar.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by The exploding boy

And i'm very ok with telling women to take precautions.

How you cant reconcile that with me saying its never their fault because ultimately, if there wasnt a rapist, they couldn't be getting raped, is what i don't get.

Originally Posted by Eulogy

Do you not see the problem with the following statement:

"It's not your fault but you really should have been more careful."

If that is a problem, then "you should be more careful" is also a problem.

.

[Eulogy]

Rapists gonna rape

Boys will be boys

Etc

[The exploding boy]

You're being dense. Sorry you just are. TO you these statements can't ever compute. Telling a woman to take precautions just means deep down i think if she doesn't she asked for it. Ok. That's your problem not mine.

Im out of this. This can't go anywhere else.

[Eulogy]

Do you not see how this is all fucking connected? "Don't wear X to X place because it's sketchy" means "if you wear X to X place and get raped there you could have prevented that rape" which leads to feelings of guilt and shame on the part of the victim which leads to an unwillingness to come out about it and confront the assailant which leads to the assailant and others like him doing it again

Fuck.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by The exploding boy

You're being dense. Sorry you just are. TO you these statements can't ever compute. Telling a woman to take precautions just means deep down i think if she doesn't she asked for it. Ok. That's your problem not mine.

Im out of this. This can't go anywhere else.

It can and should lead to you stopping victim blaming.

[hnibos]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

Do you not see how this is all fucking connected? "Don't wear X to X place because it's sketchy" means "if you wear X to X place and get raped there you could have prevented that rape" which leads to feelings of guilt and shame on the part of the victim which leads to an unwillingness to come out about it and confront the assailant which leads to the assailant and others like him doing it again

Fuck.

Yeah I see that, but what's the alternative?

Violent crimes will go down, but they'll never just stop.

[Eulogy]

The alternative is refusing to put the onus on women to prevent their own rapes so we can all stand up when it happens and ensure that her assailant suffers real consequences.

[Eulogy]

Hnibos I like you but this attitude is fucking dangerous and I'm imploring you to reconsider it

[hnibos]

If someone I knew got raped at jfs down the road I would never ever say, you shouldn't have gone to jfs. But afterwards if someone I thought was vulnerable said they were going to jfs, I would warn them of past shit that has happened there. Wouldn't you?

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by hnibos

If someone I knew got raped at jfs down the road I would never ever say, you shouldn't have gone to jfs. But afterwards if someone I thought was vulnerable said they were going to jfs, I would warn them of past shit that has happened there. Wouldn't you?

Was the rapist arrested and convicted?

[Eulogy]

Also what does "someone I thought was vulnerable" mean?

[hnibos]

Sure.

[hnibos]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

Also what does "someone I thought was vulnerable" mean?

Not just women. Gay guys get raped too.

[The exploding boy]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

The alternative is refusing to put the onus on women to prevent their own rapes so we can all stand up when it happens and ensure that her assailant suffers real consequences.

Well that's utopian.... I mean i believe they should suffer more consequences but goddam havent we been at this for over 30 years now? To what results?

And rapists ARE gonna rape, in fact.

No there will NEVER EVER not be rapists. Sure we can try to do a lot more so they don't exist, and do a lot more so when they get caught they don't get to easily to it again, or reform, and we can also do a lot more to make it harder for them to prey on women and we can do a lot more as a society to take action when we are witnessing certain thigns like some scumbag approaching the drunkest girl in the bar but they're always gonna be out there. Like murderers. Like thieves, like muggers, like any other criminal. It will most likely NEVER EVER be safe for women to be out alone at night. It's fucking depressingly sad, but that's fact. If you believe in mankind enough to think we can stop rapists from existing, then you're a more hopeful man than i am.

I don't believe in shaming the victims of course i don't think the victim should ever think "well it was my fault i should have been more careful" but again i think we STILL need to teach women to be aware of what potential opportunities rapists are looking for. To not do so is criminal. Prevention needs to happen on all sides.

Go to any bar at night, scan the crowd, i'd say at least one out of every fifteen men out there is a potential rapist. And all hes doing is waiting for the right opportunity. If i had a daughter you better fucking believe i'd tell her to be aware of that fact at all times.

I think that teaching women it's never their fault can ALSO work with teaching them what precautions they can take. For one, you can take all the precautions in the world and still it will end up happening....

I don't know, clearly we can't see eye to eye on this. I still will never think it's wrong to tell a woman to be wary. If that makes me an idiot well fine...

[hnibos]

That's entirely too long of a post for the morning, man.

[The exploding boy]

I know. And i keep saying i'm off too. Eh. Well at this point there's nothing i can add to this anyway.

[Jerry's Ray]

I want to weigh in but I'm scared...

[Eulogy]

If men actually went to prison for sexual assault fewer men would be sexual assailants.

If you stop shaming women for being raped (which is what you're doing), more sexual assailants will go to prison.

[Eulogy]

Like Teb if you wanna be all helpful and tell a woman where she can't go and then she goes there and gets raped what would you consider a proper reaction

[The exploding boy]

the only appropriate reaction would be to go with her to the police with all the information she has and see what can be done.

Which is probably gonna be not that much because let's face it, society is not that interested in stopping rape or properly taking care of rapists. No one is really looking out for women not to get assaulted, no one is really that interested in doing much when it happens. Not to mention that the justice system pretty much still buys into the "well its kinda the victims fault sometimes" narrative which leads to light sentencing if any at all. These are all reasons why women need to look out for themselves, cause no one is doing it for them.

[Jerry's Ray]

All of this debating has me wanting to watch the accused again.

[The exploding boy]

I learned recently that Kelly Mcgillis and her gf were raped at knifepoint a few years before making the film and that it directly led her to alcoholism and eventually to quit hollywood. She was offered the role of the victim in the accused, turned it down for obvious reasons...then insisted to get the part of the lawyer instead. One of the guy who did it was a serial rapist that didn't get a serious sentence (50 years) until 2010... for basically doing pretty much the exact same crime (two girls at knifepoint)

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by The exploding boy

the only appropriate reaction would be to go with her to the police with all the information she has and see what can be done.

Which is probably gonna be not that much because let's face it, society is not that interested in stopping rape or properly taking care of rapists. No one is really looking out for women not to get assaulted, no one is really that interested in doing much when it happens. Not to mention that the justice system pretty much still buys into the "well its kinda the victims fault sometimes" narrative which leads to light sentencing if any at all. These are all reasons why women need to look out for themselves, cause no one is doing it for them.

YOU ARE HELPING CONSTRUCT THAT NARRATIVE

[The exploding boy]

No. Only in your flawed logic.

Or rather the idea that in your mind you can't have a woman be wary of rapists and not have her (or anyone else) think she's to blame if she ends up being raped. They're not mutually exclusive.

[Elijah Moon]

I'm not into blaming victims but I was a terrible binge-drinker/alcoholic for years, and now I've been sober for more than five years, I don't see the appeal of getting completely out of control and/or blacking out from booze. I had some bad shit happen to me, like getting beaten unconscious for being a bit mouthy -- I didn't deserve it but I did feel it wouldn't have happened if I wasn't out-of-control drunk, so I felt partly responsible.

I wouldn't tell anyone what they should or shouldn't wear or how late they should stay out, but I think it's good advice for anyone to say 'Hey, don't get so wasted you don't know what you're doing.' It's not just about rape; you can make yourself vulnerable in lots of ways if you drink huge amounts of alcohol.

[The exploding boy]

Originally Posted by Elijah Moon

'Hey, don't get so wasted you don't know what you're doing.' It's not just about rape; you can make yourself vulnerable in lots of ways if you drink huge amounts of alcohol.

yes.

But no, it's harmless fun.......

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by The exploding boy

No. Only in your flawed logic.

Or rather the idea that in your mind you can't have a woman be wary of rapists and not have her (or anyone else) think she's to blame if she ends up being raped. They're not mutually exclusive.

So what about a woman who isn't wary of rapists