Libertarians

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by reprise85

elph has pretty mature beliefs for his age

Please don't tell me that I am discussing this with a 14-year-old...

[Elphenor]

I'm 20. Like at least 10 years younger than the average netphorian still tho

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

You are conflating 'anarchism' with 'disorganisation'.

What kind of bullshit is this?
The literal definition of anarchy is "a state of disorder"

You can't have an organized anarchy, shit makes no sense.

[myosis]

where did you pull that literal definition from? in my kind of greek it means "without a ruler"

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by reprise85

elph has pretty mature beliefs for his age

Lol

Idealistic democracy is mature? Not likely

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by myosis

where did you pull that literal definition from? in my kind of greek it means "without a ruler"

Well honestly, some dictionaries list a variant of that definition as well.
But still no anarchic society would be organized. That would defeat the whole point.

[Elphenor]

And I still don't understand what it is that anarchists want to do that they can't already do in a democracy besides some drugs which liberals don't think should be illegal anyway.

[Trotskilicious]

well remember to be nice and give creedence to their opinion!

[null123]

Anarchists make a lot of claims about what anarchism really is but it doesn't matter because we will never see what an actually existing anarchist society looks like

[Elphenor]

I mean, it's obvious what anarchists mean by no Gov is no taxes, but I'm waiting for them to own up to it.

[Elphenor]

But if jc is in support of a society with no private property and no gov where all humans learn to co-exist and share the Earth and take care of each other voluntarily putting the whole before the individual when necessary and never being violent or greedy or selfish....

Well, yeah, everyone should be for that. But I kinda doubt that's what any self-declared anarchist wants.

[null123]

Elphenor I'm far from defending anarchism but maybe you should just look it up on Wikipedia real quick instead of making numerous posts repeatedly declaring that you have no idea what it is

[Elphenor]

I already have but it's a question what kind of anarchism he's talking about
Via Wikipedia:

"As a subtle and anti-dogmatic philosophy, anarchism draws on many currents of thought and strategy. Anarchism does not offer a fixed body of doctrine from a single particular world view, instead fluxing and flowing as a philosophy. There are many types and traditions of anarchism, not all of which are mutually exclusive. Anarchist schools of thought can differ fundamentally, supporting anything from extreme individualism to complete collectivism."

So really nobody has any idea what it's supposed to mean.

[Elphenor]

And pretty much I'm just against the "extreme individualism" school of thought of anarchy.

Collectivism without a government seems impossible but pretty cool

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

As much as I didn't like aspects of the UK (like the NHS) people aren't dying in the streets.

Short of death squads running around killing people, I imagine I'm not going to start fleeing for the hills. I mean, I watched the ISIS execution video and the most amazing thing to me is that while these trucks were driving down the road with prisoners to be executed, other cars are just driving along - taking their kids to ballet and delivering the fruit to the farmers market and whatever.

So "oppression" equals death squads? What the shit, man

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

But if jc is in support of a society with no private property and no gov where all humans learn to co-exist and share the Earth and take care of each other voluntarily putting the whole before the individual when necessary and never being violent or greedy or selfish....

Well, yeah, everyone should be for that. But I kinda doubt that's what any self-declared anarchist wants.

Uh, yea, that sounds exactly like what I'd like.

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

So "oppression" equals death squads? What the shit, man

I don't understand what you mean. Do you think the hypothetical idea of death squads would not be oppressive, or are you saying something else?

[Elphenor]

There are a lot of different ideas on what constitutes an anarchy, why you would want an anarchy, and what an anarchy would look like.

People are cool and that's why they form governments imo. They figure out the best way to accomplish things is to organize.
The way humans are now if you were to abolish all governments in existence today it would just result in the formation of new ruling groups and then the eventual reinstatement of governments.
That's how humans do it.

Maybe humans could evolve to the point where government isn't necessary and they can find a way to do everything local and still guarantee as high a quality of life.

But if humans were perfect pretty much any system you wanted would be a success.

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

I don't understand what you mean. Do you think the hypothetical idea of death squads would not be oppressive, or are you saying something else?

I think what he's getting at is that not being able to marry a dude is oppression.

[Luke de Spa]

linky link http://www.theguardian.com/science/b...-enemy-science

[Trotskilicious]

liberal propaganda

[Trotskilicious]

jc hasn't responded to anything i've said

not one thing

[Order 66]

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

I think what he's getting at is that not being able to marry a dude is oppression.

Yes, it is. But I was asked what kind of oppression would lead to me heading for the hills. I don't agree with the oppression that homosexual people currently face, but I am not going to go live in a bunker until same sex marriage is legal in Alabama.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

I don't understand what you mean. Do you think the hypothetical idea of death squads would not be oppressive, or are you saying something else?

I just assumed there was something in between a national health system and DEATH SQUADS that would be too much for you. Shit you have all those cameras in the UK following you everywhere right? Or is that just London?

[Eulogy]

And I thought the initial point of your "heading for the hills" comment was that it was a foreseeable thing. I mean I think everyone would try to escape the government if it was trying to murder him or her.

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

I just assumed there was something in between a national health system and DEATH SQUADS that would be too much for you. Shit you have all those cameras in the UK following you everywhere right? Or is that just London?

Originally Posted by Eulogy

And I thought the initial point of your "heading for the hills" comment was that it was a foreseeable thing. I mean I think everyone would try to escape the government if it was trying to murder him or her.

Ah. Obviously people are fleeing the US for tax purposes even now, but it's maybe four people a year. Are they 'oppressed'? Probably. As long as I can live reasonably comfortably, I'm probably not going to head for the hills. I mean, the US is approaching a police state right now and I think there are some very troubling signs, but I still feel relatively safe from oppression. A lot of it has to do with my demographic and location. White, Christian, middle class males have it better than any other group in the US. Maybe if I was a working-class, black female in Ferguson, MO - I would be pondering a move to the hills.

[Eulogy]

Did you move back?? When did that happen?

[Eulogy]

And wait. You think the US corporate tax rate and the taxes in wealthy people are oppressive still?

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

I mean, it's obvious what anarchists mean by no Gov is no taxes, but I'm waiting for them to own up to it.

.