2016 Obama's America

[Starla]

If you don't think it's causing problems for other people, then I guess there's no big deal.

[Bread Regal]

the "problems" that other people are having are fueled by a mass hysteria which is constantly stoked by the right.

[Bread Regal]

still waiting on that article telling me that ERs are rejecting patients.

[Starla]

The ER is not rejecting patients, the hospital that provided charity care for extended care. ie: someone comes in with an emergency situation, they are stabilized, but they need further tests. Now they cannot get those tests, where before they could.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Bread Regal

the "problems" that other people are having are fueled by a mass hysteria which is constantly stoked by the right.

So all of these people who aren't lucky enough to get their subsidies and/or medicaid are experiencing mass hysteria fueled by republicans? Hmm.

[Bread Regal]

the arguments that you're making are based entirely (and i mean entirely) on anecdotal evidence. stats show:

-enrollment is up
-health care premiums have increased at a lower rate than in the past two decade
-no more policy termination letters
-no disqualifications due to preexisting conditions
-2/3 of revenues to insurance companies go towards care and any surpluses are given back to policy holders
-those eligible for subsidies ie people making up 95k per year are actually seeing their net expenditures on premiums going down

[Bread Regal]

Originally Posted by Starla

So all of these people who aren't lucky enough to get their subsidies and/or medicaid are experiencing mass hysteria fueled by republicans? Hmm.

every state that rejected medicaid expansion has a republican governor

[Bread Regal]

so yes.

[Bread Regal]

http://www.advisory.com/daily-briefi...rs/medicaidmap

[Future Boy]

Originally Posted by Starla

A lot of the discussions, are not hysterical ramblings, which is why I suggested it. I guess it's easier to follow things that suggest this is going to be a great thing for everyone?

only success stories like his matter starla, duh

[Bread Regal]

Originally Posted by Starla

The ER is not rejecting patients, the hospital that provided charity care for extended care. ie: someone comes in with an emergency situation, they are stabilized, but they need further tests. Now they cannot get those tests, where before they could.

please provide one single iota of evidence that alludes to this.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Bread Regal

every state that rejected medicaid expansion has a republican governor

Steve Bullock, our gov of Mt is a dem. We did not expand medicaid here.

[Trotskilicious]

you mean a republocrat right

[Bread Regal]

Originally Posted by Starla

Steve Bullock, our gov of Mt is a dem. We did not expand medicaid here.

let's look more into that

http://missoulian.com/news/local/vot...a4bcf887a.html

For now, House Bill 623 resides in the House Human Services Committee – a panel controlled by Republicans who have consistently voted to kill all Medicaid-expansion proposals this session.

It would take 60 votes in the House to bring the measure to the floor for debate and possible passage. Republicans, most of whom oppose the bill, have a 61-39 majority in the House.

barely an exception to my blanket statement.

[Bread Regal]

i'll revise it then:

every state that didn't expand medicare and didn't already have a republican dominated legislature that killed it, had a republican governer who killed it.

[Bread Regal]

in so many circumstances I would agree that it's a wash. but not this time. republicans have dug their heels into the dirt every step of the way on this.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

you mean a republocrat right

Rethuglocrat.

[Future Boy]

Originally Posted by Bread Regal

republicans have dug their heels into the dirt every step of the way on this.

serious question, what should they do/what would you expect?

like, say Bushs privatize SS movement got close to passage then passed. I would want Dems to fight at every stage and not give at all by trying to make it somehow suck less or prevent failure. Dems should want them to make it fail.

Not an exact 1:1 here true, mainly because this is a repub plan passed by dems with some "suck less" shit thrown in, but still, even politically why expect any help from republicans? Here you guys are praising this POS just because Dems passed it, why expect anything more from the other side? I've never understood the complaints of republican feet dragging and wanting it to fail. Like, duh.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Bread Regal

let's look more into that

http://missoulian.com/news/local/vot...a4bcf887a.html



barely an exception to my blanket statement.

It's too bad medicaid was not expanded here. I don't want to see anyone go without health care. But I don't believe "thousands of jobs" would be created here. I've lived up here for years and have seen how the job market is going all the way back to 2006 before Obama.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Bread Regal

please provide one single iota of evidence that alludes to this.

I tried to find the link I posted over in the other forum, and I lost my bookmark. This pretty much best describes what has happened to one of our hospitals here

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/08/catch...der-obamacare/

Our hospital is not turning people away from the ER, just some cases where extended care is needed.

[Starla]

I grew up in poverty. I grew up in a large family with the mindset of 'fuck the middle class and rich, I'll take what i can get'. I'll sit here and collect my checks, do nothing to improve my life.... I'll drink, drug, who cares, etc.

I seriously detest that attitude, of fuck everyone else, as long as I get mine. I had to work for every single thing I have to get myself out of that life, as does anyone else I know who did it as well. The biggest stereotype of natives is, welfare, alcohol, lazy, broken down trailer with mangy dog and trash in the yard.

I've worked 3 jobs at one time as a single mother and put myself through college 3 times. I've gone hungry, I've done without, I've struggled.... and still I don't have much but I'm doing better now. I'll be paying students loans until I die, I'm sure. At one point I owned a house, then I lost it. Got back on top with a lot of hard work again...

Is it fair for me to have to pay for another persons "fuck off, as long as I got mine" attitude?

I'm all for social programs that help people, as long as it doesn't break the backs of those who are already struggling too, and from what I see, I see it doing just that to many people.

This is why I decided to just stop talking about it on the other forum, because I think we need to give it more time to see how this is going to work, or if it works. It's hard to know coming out of the gate, but from what we are seeing so far, it doesn't look good. I really don't have much more to offer than that. Just wait and see.

[Order 66]

its basically insurance reform, not single payer. you're not paying for anybody's anything...

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Starla

Is it fair for me to have to pay for another persons "fuck off, as long as I got mine" attitude?

wait...what?

[Bread Regal]

Originally Posted by Future Boy

Not an exact 1:1 here

it's a flawed analogy. the correct analogy would be democrats wanting to privatize social security in 10 years and the GOP launching a PR campaign about how the dems want to execute your sweet li'l ol' gramma by firing squad.

[Bread Regal]

and man, if any faction of people has had their ancestors earn them the right to live off of welfare, it's the natives.

i don't want to come off as whitesplaining here, but it also seems to me that many of the social problems endemic to res life have to do with very poor social infrastructure.

[Future Boy]

Originally Posted by Bread Regal

it's a flawed analogy.

yeah, i said that. but even allowing for that the foot dragging complaints make no sense. No shit man, its politics.

[Future Boy]

expectations of anything other than complete republican opposition has been one of the most frustrating parts of this Admin and its supporters

[The Omega Concern]

Originally Posted by Starla

Raising the minimum wage might help at first, but what happens when companies respond by saying they can't pay that much and stay in business. Also.. raising minimum wage may cause other things to eventually go up, rent, groceries, etc.

Minimum wage debate is a red herring.


It's not how much money you make per hour that's important, its that the money you make needs more purchasing power. You need to get rid of the current Federal Reserve and the psychotic, despotic hold it has on the keynesian fiat ruse.

[Order 66]

agreed. income is irrelevant

[The Omega Concern]

Originally Posted by Future Boy

serious question, what should they do/what would you expect?

like, say Bushs privatize SS movement got close to passage then passed. I would want Dems to fight at every stage and not give at all by trying to make it somehow suck less or prevent failure. Dems should want them to make it fail.

Not an exact 1:1 here true, mainly because this is a repub plan passed by dems with some "suck less" shit thrown in, but still, even politically why expect any help from republicans? Here you guys are praising this POS just because Dems passed it, why expect anything more from the other side? I've never understood the complaints of republican feet dragging and wanting it to fail. Like, duh.

FB, you're trying to reason with someone who has mistaken their indoctrination as an education. forget it.