Universal Healthcare is Wonderful and Will Ensure Better Health care for everyone

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by sppunk

Midterms going heavily to the GOP would really put a target on the legislation.

Not going to happen. By spring/summer this website nonsense will be out of the news, and millions of people who actually wanted insuracne will have it, either though an exchange or through medicare.

This midterm will not be a wave election in the GOPs favor. Demographics are against them. And the general approval rating for the teaparty and GOP is extremely low. I don't see that changing much. On top of that there's a GOP civil war going on. They're going to slaughter each other during the primaries.

My guess is that Dems pick up seats in the House, and the Senate balance doesn't change by more than one seat.

[Trotskilicious]

oh scotty

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by sppunk

Yup - perfect summation. Problem is the administration was arms-locked in tow with them. The legislation proves that point pretty well.

i'm actually surprised that you agree, i'd have thought price controls would have rankled your libertarian principles

[Trotskilicious]

i feel like another reason the ACA is such a big bucket of shit is because it's legislation that strives to respect the "free marketplace" to the point of being total crap because after all it's still government regulation and price controls are obviously necessary in an industry that has no shortage of demand or supply

[Trotskilicious]

basically what i'm saying is that it's wanker legislation drawn up by the Wanker Party that doesn't want to stand for anything but the most bland, generic cross platform approach so they don't lose votes to the nasty ol Jerkwad Party and what comes out of that arrangement is total wank so why would it be any good for anyone ever

[FutureBoy]

but it's like historic and stuff

[FutureBoy]

I love euros and Scott's posts that make it seem like the problems with things so far are only ones of perception. yeah it'll be smooth sailing from here on out guys, bamas got this

[sppunk]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

i'm actually surprised that you agree, i'd have thought price controls would have rankled your libertarian principles

I might disagree on price controls, but that's a detail that can be debated separately. The gist of what you say I wholeheartedly agree with.

We differ in I want government out of health care entirely, let the private sector work and I think you'd get a pretty good system.

Alternatively go whole hog on a single-payer system. That could work, but I'm against it in principle. But a working system is something you have to put aside principles sometimes.

The ACA forces products on people who don't need them, thus paying for things which they'll never see the benefit. A 60 year old shouldn't pay for maternity leave, for instance. The ACA is a bit similar is selling everyone a house with four bedrooms and three bathrooms. You don't need that room, yet you're forced to pay for something you'll never use.

But Scotty says all will be unicorns and rainbows. Obama has proven so far the ACA isn't working and there is no track record to believe he can turn it around.

I keep thinking this is Obama's Katrina moment. That's when the party collapsed on Bush, the party is/will have to turn on Obama to win an election.

[Trotskilicious]

i still think it would be impossible for the gop to win the next election unless they run ted cruz !!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[duovamp]

Yeah turns out once people were forced to buy some shitty companies' products, those shitty companies realized they had a government-enforced monopoly. If only there were a non-profit method of making that product, but that eliminated the need to mark up the price to the highest possible price the buyer can pay... OH WELL PRIME EXAMPLE OF GOVERNMENT BAD.

[Trotskilicious]

hahaha right

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by sppunk

I keep thinking this is Obama's Katrina moment.

i can't believe i'm the first person to call you out on this

what a fucked up comparison

[sppunk]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

i can't believe i'm the first person to call you out on this

what a fucked up comparison

Both mismanaged responses to a crisis. Don't see your faux outrage.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by FutureBoy

I love euros and Scott's posts that make it seem like the problems with things so far are only ones of perception. yeah it'll be smooth sailing from here on out guys, bamas got this

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by sppunk

The ACA forces products on people who don't need them, thus paying for things which they'll never see the benefit. A 60 year old shouldn't pay for maternity leave, for instance. The ACA is a bit similar is selling everyone a house with four bedrooms and three bathrooms. You don't need that room, yet you're forced to pay for something you'll never use.

that's called insurance. you can't legally drive a car in the United States without it.

it's also at the root of how every public service works, from roads to schools to social security and medicare.

Originally Posted by sppunk

But Scotty says all will be unicorns and rainbows. Obama has proven so far the ACA isn't working and there is no track record to believe he can turn it around.

no. that's not what I've said. I'm only saying that the ACA is better than the situation that we had before. And for the overwhelming majority of Americans it improves their access to health care and lowers its cost.

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by sppunk

Both mismanaged responses to a crisis. Don't see your faux outrage.

don't ever change bourgeois man

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by sppunk

Both mismanaged responses to a crisis. Don't see your faux outrage.

a poorly working website and a city-destroying hurricane that killed people.

shitty analogy.

but apparently future boy thinks you're right so you've got that going for you.

[Future Boy]

katrina is a pretty valid example of government incompetence, its not a stretch. no shit people died at katrina - OMG, dont ever mention it unless there are people dying

[Future Boy]

and yeah it means a lot

[Trotskilicious]

there's a lot of things you could compare that to

[Trotskilicious]

in fact this isn't like it at all

[Trotskilicious]

people dying isn't even the start of the differences

[Trotskilicious]

if you want to be particular

[sppunk]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

a poorly working website and a city-destroying hurricane that killed people.

shitty analogy.

but apparently future boy thinks you're right so you've got that going for you.

The disasters don't matter in this case, the loss of trust in the president does. Obama's approval is an all-time low; the GOP - a few weeks from halting the country and showing themselves as a party full of egomaniacs hellbent on serving no one - is now in a place where it can be the party of trust. It's ridiculous, all of it.

[Future Boy]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

people dying isn't even the start of the differences

to me there are two parts to Katrina, the hurricane people dying part and the youre doing a heck of a job brownie moron in charge of morons part. I think its fine to compare it to the second while recognizing that yes people lost their lives in the first.

But maybe Im just an asshole, so there is that.

[Trotskilicious]

ain't nobody trust republicans

fuckin white dude over here jesus do you live in a compound

[Starla]

Originally Posted by scottytheoneand

that's called insurance. you can't legally drive a car in the United States without it.

You're not mandated to buy insurance if you don't own a car.

[Euronomus]

Originally Posted by FutureBoy

I love euros and Scott's posts that make it seem like the problems with things so far are only ones of perception. yeah it'll be smooth sailing from here on out guys, bamas got this

The website is a real problem but relatively easy to fix, and the medical device tax is problematic. However the whole "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan" fiasco is a manufactured scandal. The fact is that all the people who still have the plans they had when he actually said that get to keep those plans. The Plans that were cancelled were ones that the insurance companies sold people after the law was passed, knowing full well that they would need to be cancelled when the law went into effect, but never informed the people they were selling them to of that fact(probably on purpose in some cases so they can get people on more expensive policies). Not to mention 95% of the cancelled policies were trash that provided very little or no real coverage. Anyone with half a brain wasn't happy with them, and are going to get a much better deal through the ACA.

Don't get me wrong the law is nowhere near perfect, but it's a far better system than the one that was in place and even though the administration won't admit it, it's a stepping stone to single payer. Mark my words within 5 years a public option will be implemented, and when it reaches 75% market share(and it will)
we'll make a transition to some form of single payer.

[Euronomus]

Originally Posted by Starla

You're not mandated to buy insurance if you don't own a car.

Because there are tons of people who don't actually receive healthcare.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Euronomus

Because there are tons of people who don't actually receive healthcare.

And there will still be people who won't get coverage, and it won't be better than the status quo for those who will find their plans unaffordable. We've already been over this a million times here. Also, mandating this and punishing the working poor who may not qualify for subsidies or expanded medicaid is not the solution.

If you want an example of government run health care, look at Indian health services. Yes, I get health care, it's not top of the line, but it's better than nothing at all. I had to wait 6 weeks to schedule blood work that needed to be done. I need a sleep study done, but that's not covered, so it comes out of my pocket. What about the people who can't pay out of pocket for certain procedures? They go without or find a way to pay for it. I had a tooth that I was in pain with. If I had to use tribal health, I would have had to wait a month for a root canal. I chose to pay out of pocket and get it done within 5 days.

Punishing the poor and charging for barely affordable plans is going to create more hardship. Because of the aca, everyone on IHS poor or not, will be penalized via their tribal benefits or VA checks. This is wrong. The aca needs to be scrapped.