Universal Healthcare is Wonderful and Will Ensure Better Health care for everyone

[Future Boy]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

?

see you think Im making a direct comparison of better/worse in the sense of who is covered. Does this expand coverage, sure even just on medicaid numbers alone. Thats not really what Im saying when I say worse. Plus its pretty simplistic thinking to look at things only in the sense of what you've listed which boils down to increased coverage.

in time it will be worse because it limits better solutions. If the ACA hadnt passed single-payer, for example, would be more likely to happen sooner than it will with this plan either crashing and burning, OR fixing things just enough that we limp along.

Our prospects are worse under this law, is that better phrasing for you

[Future Boy]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

what do you want to happen? and how is it possible?

repeal, republicans ride another wave and take over the world, go around bombing the shit out of everyone, but thats a problem for another time. You know, long run and all that

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Future Boy

see you think Im making a direct comparison of better/worse in the sense of who is covered. Does this expand coverage, sure even just on medicaid numbers alone. Thats not really what Im saying when I say worse. Plus its pretty simplistic thinking to look at things only in the sense of what you've listed which boils down to increased coverage.

in time it will be worse because it limits better solutions. If the ACA hadnt passed single-payer, for example, would be more likely to happen sooner than it will with this plan either crashing and burning, OR fixing things just enough that we limp along.

Our prospects are worse under this law, is that better phrasing for you

and what makes you think this? look at voters, look at congress, and then try to tell me single payer would be an option within the next three decades under any circumstances. this is complete nonsense. where are you getting this idea?

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Future Boy

repeal, republicans ride another wave and take over the world, go around bombing the shit out of everyone, but thats a problem for another time. You know, long run and all that

i assume this isn't a serious answer? why can't you just answer the question?

[Future Boy]

If you're having trouble with that whole better/worse stuff just picture Doc's alternate 1985 timeline from BTTF 2.

[Future Boy]

If you havent seen BttF 2 then go see it, wtf is wrong with you

[Future Boy]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

where are you getting this idea?

voice to skull technology maybe, i should check with Omega on that

[Future Boy]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

i assume this isn't a serious answer? why can't you just answer the question?

why, whats wrong with it

[Eulogy]

alright i'll bow out now

[Future Boy]

okay but Im counting this as a win

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by Future Boy

in time it will be worse because it limits better solutions. If the ACA hadnt passed single-payer, for example, would be more likely to happen sooner than it will with this plan either crashing and burning, OR fixing things just enough that we limp along.

This is the reason why I do not understand how this bill ever won over actual leftists. All one has to do is go beyond the talking points about coverage/costs/pre-existing conditions/abortion (ok, I made that last one up, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's been thrown in just to make the debate about what this law actually does on a systemic level even more obfuscated) to see that this simply enshrines into law so many of the corrupt/crappy/unfair/not working aspects of the existing system.

[Order 66]

there aren't many "leftists" in mainstream american politics. and those who are there aren't "won over" by the bill

[Trotskilicious]

yeah mostly the obamanauts are just grudgingly going along with it like you see eulogy here doing, you know using the logic of i don't see you have any other ideas!!!

as per Lewis Black
democrats stand up in congress and say I HAVE A REALLY BAD IDEA!!!
republicans stand up and say AND I CAN MAKE IT SHITTIER

obamacare in a nutshell

[Starla]

I don't see how this is better than what we had before, when people are losing their hours or jobs, specifically due to the aca. How are the people who support this thing, able to look the other way on that? I was reading something about how it's 1 in 10 who have had their hours cut. And with so many people losing insurance plans that they were satisfied with, we have obama on the other side claiming that those companies were just bad apples. Really?

I think we need to scrap this completely, and come up with something better that is less punitive and more realistic. This is doing nothing but creating more hardships, not relieving them.

[MyOneAndOnly]

nobody is losing their job because of the ACA.

Employer health care plans have been declining for the past 20 years. Which is one of the main reasons that something needed to be done. Suddenly now it's the fault of Obamacare.

[Future Boy]

you're just not thinking things through Starla, all those people losing hours will qualify for bigger subsidies towards fantastically amazing insurance, maybe even silver tier. They'll be healthier than they wouldve been otherwise, it'll be a nation of supermen. besides, WHATS YOUR PLAN STARLA!?

[MyOneAndOnly]

Starla hears a bunch of corporate assholes complain about Obamacare, which fits in with her conspiracy theory anti Obama world view, so she believes it.

If next week those same companies told her some other lie that didn't conform to her worldview she'd be screaming that those same assholes were liars and couldn't be trusted.

at this point there isn't much distance between her and TOC

[Future Boy]

shut the fuck up scotty

[Trotskilicious]

Scotty hears all the great things about obamacare and since it doen't effect him even a little bit, being an upper middle class white guy, he believes it.

If next week Obama said that we could fix our energy dependence by hooking meth heads up to a turbine, he'd believe it.

at this point there isn't much difference between him and a mindless zombie

[Order 66]

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/s...en-part-time-/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...art-time-empl/

[MyOneAndOnly]

I was a supporter of Universal single payer. And I would have supported real socialized medicine were it up for a vote or seemed likely to pass congress. In fact, back during 2009-2010 I was very vocal in my dislike of the ACA. I felt that Obama would have done better had he not let congress take the lead and instead pushed at the beginning for single payer.

However, It does improve upon the terrible system that we have today. It puts tens of millions of people into a position to afford health care.

What I won't do is act like Starla, Trots or all the other internet troll sheeple and just bitch about it because talking heads on TV can't bother to do real journalism on the subject.

People aren't losing their jobs. Very very few people are "losing" their health care. Millions of people will now have coverage. Millions will not be denied because of preexisting conditions. etc. etc.

[Trotskilicious]

hey guys, it's that dude who said that force feeding prisoners in gitmo is nbd

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

hey guys, it's that dude who said that force feeding prisoners in gitmo is nbd

red herring

[Trotskilicious]

you're right sorry, hey guys its scotty he's never right about anything ever is he

[sppunk]

In Scotty's mind the 15 million who are having their insurance cancelled (Obama says this isn't true and it's a transition, which I guess of you get fired/laid off at work it's a transition as well) is a small number.

[redbreegull]

Politifact - Eric Cantor says ACA is a job killer, evidence falls short - False

Politifact - Rick Scott calls ACA a job killer - False

Politifact - VA ad says Obamacare a job killer - False

[Future Boy]

look out guys they're posting politifact

[Eulogy]

i was gonna say

probably not the best thing to hang your hat on

[Order 66]

Originally Posted by sppunk

In Scotty's mind the 15 million who are having their insurance cancelled (Obama says this isn't true and it's a transition, which I guess of you get fired/laid off at work it's a transition as well) is a small number.

i really doubt its 15 million though

the thing about those sub-standard plans that don't get grandfathered in is it can go both ways. i bet anything if those people kept them then you'd be hearing "hurr i got sick but under obamacare i'm still unable to get hospital treatment/meds/ect.. thanks obama" cue fox news logo

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Future Boy

in time it will be worse because it limits better solutions. If the ACA hadnt passed single-payer, for example, would be more likely to happen sooner than it will with this plan either crashing and burning, OR fixing things just enough that we limp along.

Our prospects are worse under this law, is that better phrasing for you

bottom line i guess is that i will concede that both of our positions can be boiled to useless and most likely inaccurate speculation.

this eliminates worthless plans and hopefully brings younger, healthier people into the pool. those are good things. insurance can't work if the only people who use it are the people who always need it/need it the most.