I practically woke up one morning this week not depressed or suicidal any more

[noyen]

my problem is i've lived too much. i don't know if you can count me out of being some sort of casualty to myself. i'm drunk and tired right now, so i'm not entirely serious. but i am. i'd like to go back to being naive so i could be better at doing everything i've destroyed or done bad.

the only thing interesting to me in life is music.

[null123]

Originally Posted by Luke de Spa

i can't speak for anyone else but i can't remember not wanting to understand everything i encountered. at this point, 'want' might be the wrong word. kicking off the discovery process is pretty much automatic

Originally Posted by reprise85

i think it's just a personality trait. knowledge is important to me, exchange of ideas is important.

i remember when i used to be like this

[reprise85]

i find it funny, that with other people and especially my family, they don't know how to handle stuff. everything is understandable. it's like people think it's magic. fixing things, understanding over the counter medications and not just knowing that this brand is what works and not knowing what actual medicine they are taking. motrin on back order? just get some generic ibuprofen. it's the same thing. it's not a magic recipe. computer problems? takes me two seconds to fix it - do they want me to show them how so they can fix it next time? no, they think it's too complicated. smart phone too complicated? use it for an hour, it's intuitive.

i cant remember not being curious either

[Luke de Spa]

Originally Posted by noyen

it was the most intense thing in my life, so far. but you're right. it was good and bad. it was everything. it's had a profound impact on me, which in the end, was a bad thing. i was on a lot of acid. it lasted 2 days. it was upwards of 15-20 something hits of lsd. it opens up things in your mind. it really is math. you can see math. feel math. but yeah, i took every hypothetical and experienced it, felt it. it was amazing and horrifying because it was like a choose your own adventure and going back and forth and taking each path.

i don't want to pry too much in case it's uncomfortable dredging up memories etc., but did you do much to test your conclusions?

the question that springs to mind is: are you certain you actually underwent a comprehensive scanning of all possible realities, or did it just feel like it?

ideally i'd could phrase that better without sounding glib (obviously the brain has a finite computational capacity and any drug has a finite effect timespan, so actual comprehension of the infinite is intrinsically impossible) but yeah still what

[noyen]

curiosity has just led me to discover things and people are shit. to the core. hot molten feces. a vortex of shite swirling around sucking in everything.

life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on living /TOOL

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Charmbag

i remember when i used to be like this

and then you got jaded?

i got numb for a while and only cared about oxycodone but my curiosity is renewed. i know more about medication (and not only psych meds) than any person who has never been to college should ever know... mental illness, psychopathy, i mean fuck it's kind of ridiculous

[Shallowed]

This thread got pretty cool.

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by noyen

curiosity has just led me to discover things and people are shit. to the core. hot molten feces. a vortex of shite swirling around sucking in everything.

life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on living /TOOL

i disagree.

most people are just normal people trying to get through life

a minority of people are amoral and can be assholes

and yet a smaller minority are the trouble makers, and they cause so much trouble it appears that many people are this way but really it's a disproportionate amount of crime and misery these people cause

however, i've really only had mostly shitty relationship with abusive people, including almost everyone in my family, my one ridiculously tramuatic relationship, a woman i met in therapy who stalked me and called the police and told them things that made them interview my whole family and they stopped talking to me for a while, lots of shitty things

so i'm not sure where that positivity comes from. i think it's just because i dont have high level depression any more and this is my natural inborn perspective, but it doesnt really make a lot of sense. i guess it's a defense mechanism

[noyen]

Originally Posted by Luke de Spa

i don't want to pry too much in case it's uncomfortable dredging up memories etc., but did you do much to test your conclusions?

the question that springs to mind is: are you certain you actually underwent a comprehensive scanning of all possible realities, or did it just feel like it?

ideally i'd could phrase that better without sounding glib (obviously the brain has a finite computational capacity and any drug has a finite effect timespan, so actual comprehension of the infinite is intrinsically impossible) but yeah still what

i get you. there is always that little bit of extra left out, forgotten. not considered. so i guess that's the only thing that is interesting, is the real 'what if's'. something i haven't considered.

it wasn't a written out test case. i mean, i come from a background of doing that. seeking out problems. outcomes. possible solutions. possible disasters. there's always something that could occur that i haven't considered. and those are the things that do tend to happen in real life.

i mean, it was just an acid trip afterall. i can see it for what it was. i definitely haven't experienced everything. it was just the feeling. the feelings we all feel can be deceiving. but feeling it makes it real enough, right? i mean, the same endorphins are released whether simulated or not, right? i know that isn't true, but the concept of it seems sound enough.

[null123]

Originally Posted by reprise85

and then you got jaded?

i got numb for a while and only cared about oxycodone but my curiosity is renewed. i know more about medication (and not only psych meds) than any person who has never been to college should ever know... mental illness, psychopathy, i mean fuck it's kind of ridiculous

not jaded. i'm just a very obsessive kind of person and it causes me a lot of problems so anything i can do to preempt this part of myself is pretty necessary to my existence at this point.

[reprise85]

LDS i think you'd really like LSD... it's meant for thinkers like you, and it seems like you could handle it and go in with a good perspective and some idea of what will happen

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Charmbag

not jaded. i'm just a very obsessive kind of person and it causes me a lot of problems so anything i can do to preempt this part of myself is pretty necessary to my existence at this point.

i see

this kind of ruminating things you can never find actual answers to is frustrating a lot. the way i see it, this is all we have... the world is just amazing in so many ways. experiencing growing up for example, has been on my mind a lot. it's such a strange thing. i can't not think about it

[noyen]

Originally Posted by reprise85

i disagree.

most people are just normal people trying to get through life

a minority of people are amoral and can be assholes

and yet a smaller minority are the trouble makers, and they cause so much trouble it appears that many people are this way but really it's a disproportionate amount of crime and misery these people cause

however, i've really only had mostly shitty relationship with abusive people, including almost everyone in my family, my one ridiculously tramuatic relationship, a woman i met in therapy who stalked me and called the police and told them things that made them interview my whole family and they stopped talking to me for a while, lots of shitty things

so i'm not sure where that positivity comes from. i think it's just because i dont have high level depression any more and this is my natural inborn perspective, but it doesnt really make a lot of sense. i guess it's a defense mechanism

i'd agree and disagree. i think when you boil some things down it really is meaningless. self created. self meaning. ego. getting by. sheeping along. we're all innocent. but we're all a problem too. just being here is a problem. i suppose being here contributes to something as well, but that's just a void waiting to be filled with shit.

once you open the flood gates shit starts flowing both ways.

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by noyen

i get you. there is always that little bit of extra left out, forgotten. not considered. so i guess that's the only thing that is interesting, is the real 'what if's'. something i haven't considered.

it wasn't a written out test case. i mean, i come from a background of doing that. seeking out problems. outcomes. possible solutions. possible disasters. there's always something that could occur that i haven't considered. and those are the things that do tend to happen in real life.

i mean, it was just an acid trip afterall. i can see it for what it was. i definitely haven't experienced everything. it was just the feeling. the feelings we all feel can be deceiving. but feeling it makes it real enough, right? i mean, the same endorphins are released whether simulated or not, right? i know that isn't true, but the concept of it seems sound enough.

feelings are just as real as anything else, in my opinion. they are not facts, and it is good to keep that in perspective, but the feeling itself is important imo

[noyen]

thats what i mean. feelings are just feelings. facts are just feelings. they don't mean anything because anything can change. feelings can change. facts change. there really is no stable ground.

the world should reset with one person instead of two. adam and eve were the problem. if it was just pat, things would be fine. it would just be pat and her tree and pet snake.

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by noyen

i'd agree and disagree. i think when you boil some things down it really is meaningless. self created. self meaning. ego. getting by. sheeping along. we're all innocent. but we're all a problem too. just being here is a problem. i suppose being here contributes to something as well, but that's just a void waiting to be filled with shit.

once you open the flood gates shit starts flowing both ways.

i think we get into here, something i have before, where i feel life is pointless but not meaningless. misery sucks, and avoiding it when possible means somethng to me. and i mean making it where other people don't feel it as well. and if one must feel it, embracing it and knowing you will grow from it.

it is all ego and self creation, i totally agree. i do think it's a defense mechanism for me. it is hard to face just how fucked up the people closest to me have been to me. it is easier to think there is something wrong with me, it becomes what is more painful, thinking it's me or thinking it's them.

i think symbolically, we all get torn into parts, especially those with extended trauma. and i never will be whole again, but can become some kind of patched up... thing. at least i hope so

[Luke de Spa]

Originally Posted by noyen

i mean, it was just an acid trip afterall. i can see it for what it was. i definitely haven't experienced everything. it was just the feeling. the feelings we all feel can be deceiving. but feeling it makes it real enough, right? i mean, the same endorphins are released whether simulated or not, right? i know that isn't true, but the concept of it seems sound enough.

that is fascinating to me. i can't imagine not questioning it, or not wanting to question it. everything else like that i've always thought "well, am i just bullshitting myself or what?". i would totally think of it down brain chemical lines. i guess it's like people who have religious experiences and consequently insist up and down that god is real because they felt it

[null123]

Originally Posted by reprise85

i see

this kind of ruminating things you can never find actual answers to is frustrating a lot. the way i see it, this is all we have... the world is just amazing in so many ways. experiencing growing up for example, has been on my mind a lot. it's such a strange thing. i can't not think about it

i also just don't really value anymore a lot of the kinds of knowledge that seem to result from analyzing the hell out of everything and often find that the dumbest opinions come from people who do. i say this as someone who has always operated almost exclusively by analyzing everything to death, but people who act and think more instinctually and just let themselves be human sometimes can seem a lot more intelligent. *this opinion is the result of my own obsessive analysis

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by noyen

thats what i mean. feelings are just feelings. facts are just feelings. they don't mean anything because anything can change. feelings can change. facts change. there really is no stable ground.

the world should reset with one person instead of two. adam and eve were the problem. if it was just pat, things would be fine. it would just be pat and her tree and pet snake.

i had a thought a while ago, that seems very simple, but kind of blew my mind. and that is: rules are imaginary. all of them. how many rules do we come to every day? and time itself, our measurements - just a way to try to explain time, math made easy, and useful, but imaginary

[Luke de Spa]

Originally Posted by Charmbag

i also just don't really value anymore a lot of the kinds of knowledge that seem to result from analyzing the hell out of everything and often find that the dumbest opinions come from people who do. i say this as someone who has always operated almost exclusively by analyzing everything to death, but people who act and think more instinctually and just let themselves be human sometimes can seem a lot more intelligent. *this opinion is the result of my own obsessive analysis

examples?

[noyen]

Originally Posted by Luke de Spa

that is fascinating to me. i can't imagine not questioning it, or not wanting to question it. everything else like that i've always thought "well, am i just bullshitting myself or what?". i would totally think of it down brain chemical lines. i guess it's like people who have religious experiences and consequently insist up and down that god is real because they felt it

see, now we're trippin.

it really makes you realize that all opinions and justifications and all that other garbage are just reactionary things to internal or external stimulus. there are people who really believe in shit. it makes you wonder why. but then they give you reasons why the believe what they do, and to someone else it's just shite. when you level the playing field to nothing it gets interesting. our brains are built to react to physical and emotional things. we are utterly useless things. reactionary, egotistical, cunty humans womping about like everything is important.

[Luke de Spa]

Originally Posted by reprise85

i had a thought a while ago, that seems very simple, but kind of blew my mind. and that is: rules are imaginary. all of them. how many rules do we come to every day? and time itself, our measurements - just a way to try to explain time, math made easy, and useful, but imaginary

well. hey. there's a very good chance we're all living in a simulation

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Charmbag

i also just don't really value anymore a lot of the kinds of knowledge that seem to result from analyzing the hell out of everything and often find that the dumbest opinions come from people who do. i say this as someone who has always operated almost exclusively by analyzing everything to death, but people who act and think more instinctually and just let themselves be human sometimes can seem a lot more intelligent. *this opinion is the result of my own obsessive analysis

you explained this well. it is a balancing act and i'd like to be better with it and do think i have been. i was for a while obsessively on a dissociative disorders forum, i spent hours editing wikipedia, reading research papers, trying to understand how people can be so fucked up, both those who abuse people and those who are abused

and i did find out a lot, but now i am experiencing getting well and don't obsess about it and resigned from the message board. i need to live and i cant worry about other people's problems en mass, only those i care about and as some people who have PMed me know i enjoy talking about things and i dont think i 'help' people as i'm just a layperson, but talking to someone who has gotten a lot out of reading and therapy and observing others with mental illness, i hope it makes people feel better. i do care about you guys (most of you) and this place has helped me a lot.

im also intoxicated tonight and i have to wake up in five hours and then work until 9pm but eh, you guys are awesome

i do obsess about a lot of things. i didnt even realize what i did was obsession. and i also used to obsess about my time in bizzaro land which i rarely do now. i think about it a lot, because a lot of things are triggers to it, but i dont obsess - but i do have dreams about it, which sucks

i do need to get better at this. my therapist has discussed it with me as well. intellectual erica is good in some situations but not all

[Luke de Spa]

Originally Posted by noyen

see, now we're trippin.

it really makes you realize that all opinions and justifications and all that other garbage are just reactionary things to internal or external stimulus. there are people who really believe in shit. it makes you wonder why. but then they give you reasons why the believe what they do, and to someone else it's just shite. when you level the playing field to nothing it gets interesting. our brains are built to react to physical and emotional things. we are utterly useless things. reactionary, egotistical, cunty humans womping about like everything is important.

when you say "it" – the first "it" in your post – are you talking about a drug? regardless, i already see the world that way. it doesn't make me or other people seem like shit, though.

it makes us seem like victims.

[null123]

Originally Posted by Luke de Spa

examples?

like i don't think it's very useful or important to care that we are "meat robots" or whatever, i think that's actually a potentially very destructive way to approach life. i think that hyperventilating over religion or setting up a religion vs science paradigm is a huge waste. i honestly don't think you have to analyze very hard to figure out what is necessary to have a good community or society and honestly who cares about anything else. i think a lot of it also goes along with an obsession with self-actualization and that kinda shit which is all pretty overrated to me. this isn't to say that there is no use for high level analysis, obviously we need both, i'm just musing.

[noyen]

i could do better at expressing myself, but i'm really sucking right now. hah. sorry. i don't even mean the drug. i really mean the "it" as the part about thinking. the thing that triggers the question. your brain. whatever. an opposing view. a slight breeze. a new color. i think there gets a point where questioning becomes tiresome and acceptance becomes easier. like old people dying. they don't give a fuck about whatever. they just want to get over the next ridge. when they've seen things go this way, that way. when it becomes as natural as things sliding one way or another. the why becomes less interesting. it becomes a hassle to adapt. an inconvenience.

i do think we're all victims. we all can be. it was a curse to be born. all of us.

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Luke de Spa

well. hey. there's a very good chance we're all living in a simulation

i'm cool with that. everything is unreal in my world anyway. im not even sure you guys exist. solipsism is all fine and dandy to think about but i really get to the point where i feel on the brink of psychosis and it is uncomfortable.

so we are here, everything is built on humans making it up as they go along, and here we are in this age of ridiculous technology that threatens us to make our social engagements largely digital, where guns kill 5 and 6 year olds and rules don't exist.

how absurd.

and yet here we are, wishing, hoping, hating, lying, bags of hypocrisy, sometimes decent and some times deceitful but always fallible

is there beauty in that somewhere? what matters? and re: self actualization, i do think about it, but because i think if i get myself together i could benefit the world, which seems to be my purpose in life. and it is selfish, because it makes me feel good, just as all of our actions are selfish. but i'm okay with that.

[null123]

anything that leads to people devaluing life or their relationship to other people basically sucks and is worthless

[null123]

don't do drugs. read my posts

[noyen]

"Nothing is beautiful from every point of view" and all that jazz. reversed and opposed and all that too. nothing is ugly from every point of view either. life is beautiful and ugly and stupid and amazing. everything and nothing, yadda yadda.

i probably sound pretty miserable but i do find things very pretty and meaningful but then my brain kicks in and turns the pretty to ugly and the ugly to pretty.

i am disturbed. i am going to bed.

i love tacos.