I practically woke up one morning this week not depressed or suicidal any more

[Luke de Spa]

(summary: we don't know what we don't know, so we act as if we know everything)

assuming that, for a given discussion topic, different people a) have access to different information, and b) will fall foul of various other cognitive biases and emotional foibles: the only possible outcome is threads like this one

talking monkeys, man

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

that a "good product" to them is not something that helps anyone, it's something that creates dependency and is just good enough to keep someone taking it but never actually curing anything... yes, i think that makes a lot of sense

you do realize that very few medications actually cure diseases, right?

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by mpp

One of the few times recently where a post on Netphoria has stung me a little. Why the guilt? I think lots of folks need medication for a period or two in their lives (whether or not they seek it out is another matter). I'm not sure why you'd feel guilty about that but *hug*.


edit: including yours truly, of course

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

yeah that bothered me too, i figured the biggest mental health advocate on the board would feel better about taking meds

these people seriously think their perception is reality. it's ludicrous on the face of it. and that's not even getting to the mountains of scientific evidence that debunks their self-help book mindset

honestly it's kind of like how the pro gun advocates rely on apocryphal stories, fear tactics, anecdotal evidence and assumptive logic while anti gun advocates use statistics and data. i mean it would be hilarious if it wasn't so widespread and respected.

i'm just ambivalent. i know in the end it's what i need, and it doesn't make me weak or bad or anything, and it doesn't make anyone else bad of course. most of the awesome people i've met in my life wouldn't have lived past their teens without medication, therapy, or both. it is a testament to science that we are able to help many people with mental illness with medication. who needs a world full of nimrod son's

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

i think as a society we've moved to over-medication. it's far easier to write a prescription to numb the symptoms than it is to try to solve the cause of the issues.

if medication makes you numb, you are over-medicated. there is no reason in the world anyone should be over-medicated with psych meds. everyone who meets me has no idea i am on psych meds, let alone the number i'm on.

it might happen as a side effect for the first few days, but after that, it is a bad doctor that would keep you on meds like that. psych meds are not meant to numb, they are meant to treat the symptoms you have

[reprise85]

Shallowed, I was depressed my whole life, at least since I was in 5th grade which is when I remember starting to plan "sick days" a day ahead because i just couldn't make myself go, and faking taking showers by running it and just sitting on the bathroom floor. i just couldnt make myself do it. when i was in 8th grade i was so depressed i stopped being able to make myself go to school at all, but i never told anyone i was suicidal and got labelled with oppositional defiant disorder, which was so off the mark it made me even more upset.

i tried to kill myself three times at the beginning of 9th grade, two were kind of testing the waters but the third time i really should have died because i took like 100 advils but i dont know how, i just got a really bad rash and when i went to the doctor they diagnosed it is an idiopathic rash and that was it.

then i met a dude online who turned out to be like an awful person who is like the lowest scum of the earth child predator, i was with him for almost five years, threatened with death a lot blah blah blah almost died, almost killed him, almost ruined my life. lived 1000 miles from home with him for all that time, had an epiphany one day that i was either about to die or about to kill him and i ran away and hid out from him for a day and a half so he wouldnt find me and got on a plane and moved back with literally the clothes on my back and nothing else. i was 19 and had been away from my family for 4 1/2 years. so i completely started over and it was wonderful

i felt renewed, suppressed everything that happened. did okay for a while, discovered weed and LSD, did good, made friends, had a decent job. started getting depressed enough to finally considering going on an antidepressant (i was very medication resistant, i really didnt want to ever but it was starting to have panic attacks, PTSD was starting to come into my life though i didnt know it at the time)... got into drugs, got addicted to drugs, started having flashbacks to that relationship, nightmares, panic attacks constantly, i'd wake up every day with a panic attack that made me puke. every day. this is also the time i started having problems with consciousness. mostly derealization, which i'd had for as long as i remembered, but it started affecting my work, and i had no idea what it was but i talked to my friend david about it (we worked together) and he did research and figured out what it was. he had no idea i had the relationship that i did, and to be honest i didnt think about it like that at the time, doublethink really is what i did - but it started getting bad and affecting me at work, i'd have time i didnt remember and i kept telling him "i know im here, i'm talking to you, but i don't feel like it's really happening"

finally told someone i was on drugs and about what happened to me and went into my first hospitalization in April 2008, was there for my 23rd birthday, got diagnosed with major depressive disorder, post traumatic stress disorder, and dissociative disorder not otherwise specified. i had previously been diagnosed with MDD, generalized anxiety disorder and sleep disorder NOS, but my psychiatrist didnt know about my trauma and stuff

next two years i was in and out of that hospital probably six or seven times

by late 2010 i got baker acted, which is forced sectioning in a mental hospital. pretty much the worst i got was then, it was i think august 2010. i was there for about a month on suicide watch

since then i've slowly improved. it def didn't happen overnight. i'd say i stopped being depressed a majority of the time around the beginning of this year. i've been on the same med combo since mid 2011. i would consider myself stabalized by around sept 2011 and not really depressed since early 2012. i am still technically clinically depressed, though, but i dont give a shit about labels like that.

it was getting the right meds, and all that therapy. i've been in therapy one or two times a week for four years. my therapist now i've been seeing since mid 2011, she's amazing, like really really good at her job

the last time i was dangerously suicidal was that last hospital visit, which was more than two years ago. and by seriously i mean stuff like looking up my medications to see if i could use them to die, and giving things away. i've had obsessional suicidal thoughts since then but intermittently and thoughts in and of themselves dont make me feel out of control

so there's my life depression story

[reprise85]

i also had some random suicide attempts during 2009 and 2010

one time i woke up and my bed was burned up. like, i had obviously set my bed on fire. i have no idea what happened. and i was not intoxicated. no memory at all of what happened.

one time decide to crash my car, shit this was in early 2007 even, i forgot about this. i was still working at this time at a normal job. i wanted to crash into a wall. i went to do it and there were workers there manicuring the grass, and i hit the break and swerved back and hit the car in front of me instead

one time i ended up in key largo with no memory of driving there. it was 5:30am, i was at a gas station, and i had $20. it's like two hours away. this was in 2010

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Shallowed

Thanks for your posts, reprise.



I've shown symptoms of depression for years. At first I was completely unaware. Then I started to wonder if I was depressed. I was in denial about it because how could I be depressed? One day a friend I hadn't seen for a long time told me he was diagnosed with depression. It made me start to seriously think that I might be depressed. I was already having suicidal thoughts, but I was in denial about being suicidal too. This year I've been doing not very much with myself. Some months ago I had a bad trip by myself, confined to my bedroom at night with my sister sleeping in the room next door. I called a suicide hotline and without giving away that I was tripping, admitted to the counsellor that I wanted to kill myself. It was the first time that I realised that I didn't just think that I might have been depressed and suicidal, it was actually real.

Yeah, tripping kinda did that for me too. I was having panic attacks before I started tripping, but my first trip I was also confined in a room and started having PTSD flashbacks... and while it was awful at the time, I do think I'm better for it.

It's good you're not in denial anymore. That's a big step. I hope you are proud of yourself Not everyone gets there.

How long have you been feeling good for? I just wanna say that I support and defend your choice and need for anti-depressants. I didn't take them because I couldn't bring myself to do it, but anyone else that takes and needs them has my support. Love you <3

I know you weren't demeaning people on anti-depressants, so all is good You have my support, too. I do hope one day I don't need anything but I believe that is unlikely. I will not stop trying though to get to the lowest doses I possibly can, not because I feel bad for taking them, but because of the toll they take on my body (liver mostly).

Mum and I are going to see the doctor this afternoon, we had an appointment made anyway. Yesterday she also came with me talk to my counsellor with me. I'm not going to the counsellor any more unless I feel like I need it.

That's awesome. It sounds like you're being very responsible about this to me.

No, my feelings changed overnight and THEN I started to make changes. I've mentioned this like three times in the thread now.

Yeah, that's what I thought you meant. I started making mental changes and understanding my situation more before I started feeling better, and then I was able to change my diet and start taking probiotics and exercising and etc after everyday upkeep of my body and home became not such a big ordeal. It is just impossible when you get depressed enough, and some people think depressed people are lazy, and I wondered if I was, but it really was just depression.

Sorry for all the repblog posts. I am very glad you feel better. It's an amazing feeling, isn't it? It took me like 15+ years but I finally feel okay about 75% of the time. And I hope I never take that for granted.

Best to you.

[reprise85]

I had an idea to make a blog called "On Not Being Suicidal" to talk about the amazingness of coming back from the brink of disaster and the trials and tribulations of the whole ordeal, but I don't know if anyone cares. I also sorta got invited at one point to make a presentation at a dissociative disorders conference (well, suggested I could make a proposal and probably get it approved, this person was part of the approval committee and contacted me first based on a youtube video I had), but I let that go. I don't think I was ready.

[Nimrod's Son]

Originally Posted by Shallowed

Thanks for your posts, reprise.



I've shown symptoms of depression for years. At first I was completely unaware. Then I started to wonder if I was depressed. I was in denial about it because how could I be depressed? One day a friend I hadn't seen for a long time told me he was diagnosed with depression. It made me start to seriously think that I might be depressed. I was already having suicidal thoughts, but I was in denial about being suicidal too. This year I've been doing not very much with myself. Some months ago I had a bad trip by myself, confined to my bedroom at night with my sister sleeping in the room next door. I called a suicide hotline and without giving away that I was tripping, admitted to the counsellor that I wanted to kill myself. It was the first time that I realised that I didn't just think that I might have been depressed and suicidal, it was actually real.




How long have you been feeling good for? I just wanna say that I support and defend your choice and need for anti-depressants. I didn't take them because I couldn't bring myself to do it, but anyone else that takes and needs them has my support. Love you <3



Mum and I are going to see the doctor this afternoon, we had an appointment made anyway. Yesterday she also came with me talk to my counsellor with me. I'm not going to the counsellor any more unless I feel like I need it.



That's not what I was saying at all. This is a personal anecdote, not medical proof for anything. Depression is really complex and varies from person to person. Stop trolling.



No, my feelings changed overnight and THEN I started to make changes. I've mentioned this like three times in the thread now.

Sorry you too a bunch of acid and the. Reused you wanted to kill yourself maybe you should stuck with not taking a bunch of fucking acid?

[Nimrod's Son]

"Hey what a jerk that Nimrod is!! He's advocating against taking drugs and having fun for people who are the prescribed drugs they need because they are resigned to live a life resigned to taking drugs!"

[reprise85]

lsd makes you look at the feelings you already have. it doesnt make someone depressed, it makes them face the fact that they are depressed. i wouldnt recommend it for anyone not in a good mindset, but if you take it in a bad mindset it doesnt make issues appear that arent already there. it could be used therapeutically with the right supervision. but that's another thing

this is assuming one is not psychotic to begin with, which pasta of muppet is obviously not

[noyen]

i'm glad you practically woke up and didn't literally wake up, because if you did i'd be way more pissed.

[reprise85]

you know, my life of taking pills consists of me taking pills in the morning and at night. other than that, it's the same as everyone else. it's not like it controls your life.

[Luke de Spa]

Originally Posted by reprise85

lsd makes you look at the feelings you already have. it doesnt make someone depressed, it makes them face the fact that they are depressed. i wouldnt recommend it for anyone not in a good mindset, but if you take it in a bad mindset it doesnt make issues appear that arent already there. it could be used therapeutically with the right supervision. but that's another thing

lsd is basically the only drug i'd be interested to try some day (aside from saturday beer time)

ANYONE GOT SOME

[noyen]

hallucinogenics have fucked me up severely, but also made me a better person.

i've started taking mushrooms again after a pretty long hiatus. it has helped me get through some shit.

i'm still really fucked up though.

[Luke de Spa]

are the effects pretty different? i don't know much about mushrooms, although i know they're more easily acquired here

[Order 66]

lsd and shrooms are pretty much the same. shrooms are generally not as intense. and you got to be a little careful ... alot of people end up puking them up

i bought some a few weeks ago but it was pretty much a waste of money because i ate it in increments (to avoid getting sick) and by the time it kicked in i was tired and went to sleep

[TuralyonW3]

Personally I'd recommend LSD over shrooms. You'll want to set a whole day and night aside.

[Luke de Spa]

jeez i don't have that kind of time to spare

except for the two weeks off work i'm about to have. staying at my mum's place

'80s summer movie plot here i come

[Order 66]

anybody able to still get ahold of acid? i remember in highschool people were giving it out like candy now i don't see it anywhere save for a few oddball occaisions

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Luke de Spa

are the effects pretty different? i don't know much about mushrooms, although i know they're more easily acquired here

mushrooms, for me, were more like... fun, carefree, and happy. LSD, at it's peak, is one of the most euphoric thing ever, or, if in a bad trip, the most dysphoric thing ever. but it is not like a decadent high, it is a spiritual thing, i dont know how else to put it though i hate that word. it will make you look at yourself and your morality, and what is important to you. it will bring up those things you think of sometimes at night before you go to sleep and quickly push away, it will make you face them. a good trip, for me, is challenging; it is not hedonism. but it depends on a lot of things.

facing things is hard. but it is very rewarding. taking LSD willy nilly is asking for trouble. doing it with a purpose, or at least with a set mindset going into it, can be very beneficial. this is all my opinion of course.

i would like to do it again some day. i've talked to my therapist about it and she said she thinks i will be able to eventually, after i process some shit. it is... it is just a drug, yes, but it does change you. ideally i'd like to do it once a year or so.

there is a hedonistic side to it, i always feel a bit 'evil' (for lack of a better word) when i'm on it. maybe mischievous is a better word. it is hard to explain. it can make you feel like some kind of master of the universe, like you can think of something and find it happening... not things that aren't already there, but twisting things that are already there. you will see things that are awesome that you can't explain to anyone else, because they haven't changed, just your mind has.

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by TuralyonW3

Personally I'd recommend LSD over shrooms. You'll want to set a whole day and night aside.

yeah you're going to be full on tripping for about 8-10 hours but you'll have strong after effects until you sleep for a few hours

it's funny how when it starts ending it comes in waves. you're like 'ok, i'm normal now, came down' and then you find yourself in a thought loop again and it happens over and over.

damn i miss lsd.

[noyen]

i've had acid recently, but it wasn't the same as what i've had in the past. hasn't been the same since the big kansas bust a while ago. i've probably taken over a bible in my life. it's very very very different to shrooms, for me at least.

i feel way more out of control on lsd. i've had horrible experiences on both. shrooms are much easier to handle though. i can do a light shroom trip and go googly for 4-6 hours and then sleep afterwards. with lsd i'm always up for 2 days regardless of how much i take. i'd say try shrooms before lsd to see if you can handle it. lsd is a commitment sometimes. i really like the molly/mdma that is popular lately though.

last time i took shrroms was just a week ago. watched the UFC fight with some friends. i don't know.

DRUGS.

[Luke de Spa]

Originally Posted by reprise85

mushrooms, for me, were more like... fun, carefree, and happy. LSD, at it's peak, is one of the most euphoric thing ever, or, if in a bad trip, the most dysphoric thing ever. but it is not like a decadent high, it is a spiritual thing, i dont know how else to put it though i hate that word. it will make you look at yourself and your morality, and what is important to you. it will bring up those things you think of sometimes at night before you go to sleep and quickly push away, it will make you face them. a good trip, for me, is challenging; it is not hedonism. but it depends on a lot of things.

facing things is hard. but it is very rewarding. taking LSD willy nilly is asking for trouble. doing it with a purpose, or at least with a set mindset going into it, can be very beneficial. this is all my opinion of course.

thanks. that's interesting.

this probably sounds arrogant but i've got a pretty functional consensus-reality-compatible operating morality and sense of purpose. there's the everything-nullifying determinism-meat-robots layer but it's been years since i've been bothered by that. it's really just a prism, or maybe a lens, through which i occasionally catch glimpses of the world. i tend to appreciate it now rather than anything else. it's like i'm lifting my head out of water for fresh air.

the only hard thing to face at the moment is the decent chance that i'll be dead a lot sooner than i'd like. but i haven't really been shying away from that. anyway it's all academic because where the hell am i gonna find drugs anyway, i don't know anyone who's selling

[reprise85]

lsd + mdma is like, the ultimate. it's acid without anxiety and with an amazing body high. it's pretty amazing. the last time i did either drug, i did them together at a festival. this was march 17 2006. was one of the best days of my life, went with a friend, we got a hotel a few blocks away so we didnt have to drive. nine inch nails was the headliner, we took our mdma at around 2pm and then about 8pm took more and took the acid at 9pm, they came on at 10, right when they came on the people next to use passed us a joint. it was amazing

then we went to the hotel still tripping and watched sin city on the tv, i was sinking into the bed it was like an opiate feeling but 100x stronger, best body high i've ever had. that was a hedonistic night and i would never try that again. but it was good. i knew it was the last time i'd do it for awhile, because i was getting addicted to painkillers. i didnt have any for 4 days before to make sure i wasnt physically addicted because i knew if i was i'd have a horrible trip.

i know no one cares about drug stories but my friend and i talk about it sometimes, how everything worked out perfectly.

[noyen]

you sound like a prime candidate, LDS. prepare for a death trip.

[noyen]

all i have are drug stories. and love stories. and bad stories.

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Luke de Spa

thanks. that's interesting.

this probably sounds arrogant but i've got a pretty functional consensus-reality-compatible operating morality and sense of purpose. there's the everything-nullifying determinism-meat-robots layer but it's been years since i've been bothered by that. it's really just a prism, or maybe a lens, through which i occasionally catch glimpses of the world.

the only hard thing to face at the moment is the decent chance that i'll be dead a lot sooner than i'd like. but i haven't really been shying away from that. anyway it's all academic because where the hell am i gonna find drugs anyway, i don't know anyone who's selling

take this as you will, but in my experience things will come up that you don't expect. you do not have control when you first start taking it. i made it a mission to get some control, and i did, but i took it too often and it became an escape and something to conquer instead of something to learn from. i'm talking, i probably did it 20 times in a year, which is a ton.

you don't sound arrogant, you sound confident. acid can bring people to their knees. if nothing else, it will help you confirm all of these things you believe about yourself and the world. it is impossible to predict what will happen, really

i did LSD the first time in a room and had a horrible time, and thought i'd never do it again. but my friend was selling it (i started selling it eventually as well, it was very good quality) and there was a party and i thought if any time there's a good time it's now. a few of us did it. and i loved it. first sensation i had was like willy wonka when they are in that room and they are not sure if they are getting bigger or the room is getting smaller. good stuff. i mostly took it with someone else there who wasn't tripping, sometimes they were, a few times i was in a group... we didn't have power after a hurricane for like two weeks and i did it several times alone in the dark with a flashlight and a cd player.

[reprise85]

you can find it but you have to be careful. do you know anyone who smokes pot? all you gotta do is ask them to ask their dealers, someone will know someone probably, the real problem is making sure you know you're getting what you paid for and not some research chemical. i never had a problem but this was in 2004-2006 and i had a very reliable source that was always great quality.

it's also very easy to ship if necessary

i could get it very easily if i wanted but i know it's not a good idea right now.

[reprise85]

when you take it, or when i took it at least, you either start freaking out because of the hallucinations or thinking about stuff you have buried for a while (they're not really hallucinations, or rarely, because they're not stuff that doesn't exist but a warping of stuff that is there) or you go with it and it feels euphoric

and then after a couple hours you start to get to the peak and you start getting introspective, i suppose that's different for everyone, but the peak is like, it's impossible to explain, it's mental, it's emotional, it's physical (feels like something is actually in your brain peaking, it's hard to explain), it's spiritual (and i hate this word but it is appropriate here), it's whatever you really need it to be at that time, your subconscious leads the way. positive vibes are essential

the world is in motion, things are moving, gliding, connecting, circling, making patterns, atoms moving in rhythm, your face warping in the mirror, going to the bathroom and pondering the fact that your body is a food processing machine...

staring at a rug for half an hour, or a leaf, not really seeing the rug or leaf, but seeing yourself reflected in everything. the movement of time and space. nothing supernatural, no alternate dimensions, but the things we all are used to and take for granted, you'll think about. all the facets of society that makes it work, plumbing, electricity, politics, people working together, happiness, sadness, pain, fear, joy, love. it's all there

i know i sound like a hippie but i'm not. i feel like LSD enhances the positive part of my psyche that is already there and gets me closer to being able to embrace it in regular life

it really is an amazing substance and mushrooms barely compare. they don't have the mindfuck aspect