How Do You Get Your Health Insurance?

[scottytheoneand]

What's disturbing is that the Roberts court could invalidate the medicare provision of the law. Which would be a disaster.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by sppunk

That's a separate issue to me (and a major, huge one). I simply don't believe a government can/should penalize citizens for not buying a product. If citizens don't purchase the healthcare in this version of reform, they should either pay out of pocket at costs or br refused treatment.

I'm certain you disagree. We'll see what the court says, I'm guessing they strike the mandate but leave the overarching law (if that's truly possible, not exactly sure of the case dynamics).

...so you want to refuse people emergency services at emergency rooms..?

literally?

also not sure how it's a separate issue? it's pretty much the only issue? you can't drive a car without car insurance. you can't be in the health insurance market without health insurance.

unfortunately, people don't get to choose whether or not they are in the health insurance market, because we don't let people bleed out on the sides of roads.

[Future Boy]

so is the reasoning behind everyone is in the healthcare market that everyone at somepoint will get services, or we dont refuse services and let them die in the street

[duovamp]

Originally Posted by Future Boy

so is the reasoning behind everyone is in the healthcare market that everyone at somepoint will get services, or we dont refuse services and let them die in the street

The reasoning is actuarial, and the cause is decreased costs. Legally the reasoning is health care is a form of commerce that congress can regulate, and they are regulating costs by mandating all citizens have privately provided health care, and that providers offer this service to all.

If people who own vehicles are forced to insure them while they are in use on public roads, then insurance of the health of citizens who all will receive social security, which is everyone. I mean I can't opt out of having an Army or Coast Guard, can I? I won't use them, so why do I pay for them?

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Future Boy

so is the reasoning behind everyone is in the healthcare market that everyone at somepoint will get services, or we dont refuse services and let them die in the street

they go together. pretty obviously?

[FutureBoy]

Well yeah, i just wasn't sure if the refusal of services is what is being used as the main justification, or just simply the belief that everyone at some point will receive services.

What i mean is, yeah they go together, so why mention the refusal part specifically. I'm not following the arguments being presented before the court, and i don't recall that being a main point back w when it was being passed, as far as the constitutionality of it.

Id look up what debaser posted that one time but I'm too lazy.

[duovamp]

I've got the second half of today's session to read through, and I don't understand your confusion. Are you focusing on the part where they talk about congress's intent and what parts of the bill they aren't willing to touch? Where are you coming from on this? You're the first one in this thread to use the word refusal.

[D.]

Originally Posted by reprise85

no cobra huh?

they offered it but i have no clue what it is. i just shook my head and smiled.

[reprise85]

dude

you prob still have time to get it i think you have 60 days

it'll be your old health insurance at the full price (or close to it? i havent had it in a long time)

which is better than no insurance AND is very important that you don't have gaps because then you have to worry about getting re-insured with any pre-existing conditions

im sure someone knows the deal better than me but yeah dude look into that shit

[Future Boy]

Originally Posted by duovamp

I've got the second half of today's session to read through, and I don't understand your confusion. Are you focusing on the part where they talk about congress's intent and what parts of the bill they aren't willing to touch? Where are you coming from on this? You're the first one in this thread to use the word refusal.

re-reading the thread it seems its just part of the eulogy-sppunk discussion, I mistakenly thought it was part of the governments argument, which I said I havent been following.

[bloop]

I haven't met many jobless people who can even afford COBRA.

[Eulogy]

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...urvive-scotus/

just stumbled onto this

but who knows, maybe the irresponsible and stupid reporting would have an effect on that number. ugh.

[Travis Meeks]

Originally Posted by D.

they offered it but i have no clue what it is. i just shook my head and smiled.

A/V triple double

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

...so you want to refuse people emergency services at emergency rooms..?

literally?

yes they made choices that put them there you know

[redbreegull]

if the poor didn't want to die they shouldn't have gotten sick

fucking idiots

[Trotskilicious]

right if some illegal mexican falls off somebody's roof and impales himself on a fencepost he shouldn't have immigrated here in the first place

[Trotskilicious]

thems the breaks in libertarian perfecto land

[Trotskilicious]

(although there wouldn't be illegal immigrants just poor people)

[redbreegull]

Kennedy is currently the most powerful man in America

[Eulogy]

this might be wishful thinking but i wouldn't sleep on roberts. and part of me thinks scalia, as much as i fucking despise him (and how i would literally throw a party if he got hit by a bus), might end up on the right side of this.

the only guaranteed no is thomas. and he's utterly hopeless.

[Trotskilicious]

clarence thomas is a joke

[duovamp]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

this might be wishful thinking but i wouldn't sleep on roberts. and part of me thinks scalia, as much as i fucking despise him (and how i would literally throw a party if he got hit by a bus), might end up on the right side of this.

I dunno, that sounds like awfully wishful thinking.

[scottytheoneand]

we have an increasingly activist right wing court. I wouldn't be surprised if they threw out the Medicare provision of the law along with the mandate. for the 5 right wingers on the court this is the kind of case that they were appointed for. The idea that Scalia or Roberts (as some commentators have suggested) would uphold the mandate is a ridiculous joke.

Obama was an idiot for allowing congress to write this law (vs. presenting a comprehensive plan to congress to start with). And he was a bigger idiot for spending 2 years of his presidency begging for bipartisanship from congressional republicans who don't even believe he was born in the United States. You cannot negotiate with people who have a goal of destroying you.

the nation would be better off if we just extened Medicare to all US citizens and put price controls in place the way that Japan does.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by scottytheoneand

we have an increasingly activist right wing court. I wouldn't be surprised if they threw out the Medicare provision of the law along with the mandate. for the 5 right wingers on the court this is the kind of case that they were appointed for. The idea that Scalia or Roberts (as some commentators have suggested) would uphold the mandate is a ridiculous joke.

How many of Scalia's commerce clause opinions have you read?

start here: http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-1454.ZC.html

if i were a betting man i would probably say he'll strike it down. but to label the thought that he might uphold it a "ridiculous joke" really makes it apparent that you don't know what you're talking about.

[scottytheoneand]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

How many of Scalia's commerce clause opinions have you read?

start here: http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-1454.ZC.html

if i were a betting man i would probably say he'll strike it down. but to label the thought that he might uphold it a "ridiculous joke" really makes it apparent that you don't know what you're talking about.

Ok, boss! Whatever you say!

[scottytheoneand]

Roberts, Scalia, Thomas and Alito are going to vote down the Individual mandate. there is no way in hell those guys would let something like that law stand. The only question is whether the moderates on the court can bring Kennedy around.

[Eulogy]

so you didn't read that opinion then, i take it

i don't know why you're so opposed to learning about things you like to talk about.