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11-16-2011, 11:55 AM
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#31 |
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Banned
 
Location: all over the Internet
Posts: 43,693
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what is cupping?
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11-16-2011, 11:55 AM
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#32 |
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Brazilian Blouselord
Location: heavy metal pool party
Posts: 35,674
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Guys, this "it might be bullshit but it works for me, in spite of having no factual foundation" thought process is why religion happens.
 Come on. |
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11-16-2011, 11:56 AM
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#33 |
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Socialphobic
 
Location: you look like you like to hang out. you look like you like to hang out and drink soda
Posts: 12,677
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there is a lot of factual foundation....
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11-16-2011, 12:01 PM
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#34 | |
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Shut the fuck up!
 
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 21,943
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Quote:
I've found that the people who are the biggest devotees of such woo tend to be athletes. My wife is a professional athlete and she has a person chiropractor who works with her several times per week. she used to have a coach that practiced Reiki. I know at least another dozen professional athletes who do everything from acupuncture to visiting with a shaman on a regular basis. it's nuts but if it makes em happy, whatever. people believe what they believe |
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11-16-2011, 12:02 PM
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#35 |
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Brazilian Blouselord
Location: heavy metal pool party
Posts: 35,674
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From scienticians.
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11-16-2011, 12:12 PM
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#36 |
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Socialphobic
Location: you look like you like to hang out. you look like you like to hang out and drink soda
Posts: 12,677
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edit
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11-16-2011, 12:14 PM
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#37 |
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Socialphobic
Location: you look like you like to hang out. you look like you like to hang out and drink soda
Posts: 12,677
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i'm not an expert so i dont know exact specifics, but it's all about the natural inner balance of your body, and rather than treat the body with foreign chemicals to mask symptoms, some people choose to treat the body it's self.
i'd much rather pay a private practice GP who can give me prescriptions if i need them, can understand the dis-ease in my body and treat me holistically than pay into the rx companies anymore. i fell through the cracks and i dont trust script slangers. This is the first doc I have trusted in 5 years. this is a practice of medicine that is thousands of years old. It's not popular because people see it as barbaric and a slap in the face to western medicine and a threat to special interests. call an acupuncturist or chiro and ask them to explain exactly what they do, HOW, and WHY it works. then call your doc or a pharmacist or a drug company and ask the same thing of their treatments. then tell me which answer makes you feel more human. there's a reason many athletes turn to this type of thing. athletes know their bodies in a way that most people don't. |
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11-16-2011, 12:15 PM
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#38 |
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Brazilian Blouselord
Location: heavy metal pool party
Posts: 35,674
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Sounds like magic to me.
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11-16-2011, 12:22 PM
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#39 | |
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Socialphobic
Location: you look like you like to hang out. you look like you like to hang out and drink soda
Posts: 12,677
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I haven't tried it yet but heard good things. |
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11-16-2011, 12:22 PM
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#40 | |
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Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 21,943
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cause when you is sick, best to see witch doctor that tells you what you want to hear than a guy in a white lab coat who says you gotta lose 50lbs, stop smoking weed and exercise more. fuck science! |
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11-16-2011, 12:24 PM
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#41 | |
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Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 21,943
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why not just bleed yourself. that's natural, isn't it? get the poison and evil out! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodletting plus, if you're into cutting, it's like multitasking |
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11-16-2011, 01:04 PM
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#42 |
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Minion of Satan
 
Location: the institute
Posts: 6,431
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my friend went bicycling through Canada, she did 6000 km in a summer.
after a while she developped a knee problem and some guy treated her with acupuncture (for free, mind you) and it really improved her condition. she was able to go on. the difference between being functional and not functional is enough to warrant giving it a go. believing that scientific studies are not biased is just as laughable. believing that everything worth knowing is scientifically demonstrable is ludicrous. this is believing that human knowledge, human perception and its process are perfect and complete, this is a god-like belief thats boils down to be of the same nature as religion. deep down, religion and science are sisters. |
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11-16-2011, 01:06 PM
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#43 |
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Minion of Satan
Location: the institute
Posts: 6,431
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well this sounded like reciting nietzsche...
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11-16-2011, 01:11 PM
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#44 | |
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Socialphobic
Location: you look like you like to hang out. you look like you like to hang out and drink soda
Posts: 12,677
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Quote:
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11-16-2011, 01:21 PM
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#45 | |||
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Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 21,943
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Quote:
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11-16-2011, 01:22 PM
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#46 | |
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Socialphobic
Location: you look like you like to hang out. you look like you like to hang out and drink soda
Posts: 12,677
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11-16-2011, 01:30 PM
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#47 |
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BOTTLEG ILLEGAL
 
Location: I'm faced with so many changes that I just might change my face
Posts: 31,883
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My psychiatrist has me on five meds (that are working), and certainly is not all about alternative treatment. However, he takes supplements himself like 5-HTP and believes himself that acupuncture has helped him. He is not a stupid person or a religious man. Again I am not saying it is not just placebo effect, but he has a shit ton of credentials. He also went to Berkley like your guy, SSS.
Maybe they are teaching woo-woo shit at one of the most prominent medical schools in America  I am not making a judgment either way and mass belief of course does not make something true. But I do believe there is something to it. |
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11-16-2011, 01:32 PM
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#48 | |
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BOTTLEG ILLEGAL
Location: I'm faced with so many changes that I just might change my face
Posts: 31,883
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except for the last line, I do think they are sisters but not in the way you are implying. |
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11-16-2011, 01:46 PM
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#49 | |
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Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 21,943
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your doctor didn't learn that woo woo shit in medical school. there are plenty of people who go to good schools and have bad judgment. any physician who is advising acupuncture as treatment should not be trusted for their medical advice. Medicine is a fact based practice. Medicine is a science. When you ignore the FACT that acupuncture has absolutely no efficacy, that there is NO science to support it, you are not practicing medicine. |
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11-16-2011, 01:47 PM
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#50 |
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Ownz
Posts: 976
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I tend to disagree with Scotty about all things pumpkins related, but I actually have to side with him here (though his tone is a little out of place, since people are just sharing personal anecdotes--not engaging in an full-blown debate).
Either way, it's not that science is perfect in what it tells us about the world: it's just that the other methods don't tell us anything at all. You do need to employ the scientific method to figure out if a certain kind of treatment works or not. It's specially designed to weed out the uncertainties we find in anecdotes. For example, we'll never know if myosis' friend got better from acupuncture or if her body healed itself. We simply don't have enough information to decide. What we could do, though, is treat a bunch of people with the same condition with acupuncture, and then another bunch with a mock treatment. If the results were the same, well, there you go. It'd be good evidence that acupuncture didn't actually do anything. (Similar studies have in fact been performed and they've shown that the results are the same.) |
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11-16-2011, 01:52 PM
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#51 |
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Banned
Location: all over the Internet
Posts: 43,693
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i can see why people don't like scotty... a veil has been lifted.
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11-16-2011, 02:14 PM
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#52 |
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Minion of Satan
Location: the institute
Posts: 6,431
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scotty has been on my ignore list for a while, i only see what others quote from him.
science is intellectually rigorous and has more credence than religion for most aspects of modern society but it will never succeed by itself in defining human existence. they are just two very distinct manifestations of human desire to explain the world. one is intellectual, the other is spiritual. both are flawed, but one of them achieves more concrete results from a practical point of view. i mentionned nietzsche because he argued that the shortcomings of them both is what allows art to maintain such importance. acupuncture and rx are both based on cumulative knowledge, the difference is that in the end, your rx pill was statistically considered by three different studies (out of 5, 7, 10 ?) to be 19% more effective than a placebo for a certain condition. eh big deal! can isolating factors and variables of a complex and chaotic system really be the epitome of knowledge? are statistics to be considered the ultimate arbiter of any given problem? do they help? sure. they have a big value. are they the only thing of value? are you trying to imply that folklore tells us nothing at all about the world? methods made up by humans cannot make us see the world from outside of a human. you will always remain a human. |
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11-16-2011, 02:18 PM
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#53 | |
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BOTTLEG ILLEGAL
Location: I'm faced with so many changes that I just might change my face
Posts: 31,883
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Quote:
And I know he didn't learn it in medical school. Fact is it's a supplemental treatment and even if it is placebo - as we've already gone over - it still has a use. Not to mention, what about catharsis from pain? Just like someone who cuts or burns, you are affecting the neurotransmitters transmissions and that will change the current amount of dopamine/norepinephrine/serotonin in the neurotransmitter receptors in your brain and gut, among other chemicals. Even if this is the only thing happening, it is in effect changing your mood and reaction to all sorts of things, namely physical and psychic pain. And yes before you say it I realize this can also be achieved through things like exercising and sex. Which not everyone is capable of, but that's another topic. Perhaps we could have a conversation about this but I don't think you know shit about the brain and have a completely closed mind about anything that isn't completely scientific. Maybe if doctors were trying to treat cancer with acupuncture you would have a point; as it is it is a subjective experience that seems to help people for whatever reasons. Last edited by reprise85 : 11-16-2011 at 02:23 PM. |
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11-17-2011, 04:32 AM
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#54 |
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Amish Rake Fighter
 
Location: I fuck in my spare time, this is what I do at work you dumb bitch.-esty
Posts: 3,671
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I can't even read this thread because scotty whatever the fucks comments are so infuriated. Can I ask what you do for a living or what science type education you have that has caused you to form this opinion? I'm really asking. Because I sometimes get chastised here for being to science biased (trots) but your comments are just ridiculous... Also, why are you acting like holistic medicine isn't being taught in medical schools? Many believe that is the best, well rounded education. You would prefer these pill slinging monkeys, who are motivated by dollar signs, don't fully understand the side effects of drugs? You just sound like someone who believes pills are the cure for everything and doctors are smarter than actual scientist.. a pill to cure everything, right?
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11-18-2011, 02:10 AM
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#55 | |
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Banned
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,602
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11-18-2011, 02:12 AM
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#56 | |
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Banned
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,602
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Quote:
and "science type people" usually can express themselves a little more eloquently than the valley girl stream of consciousness drivel you pound out for example i dunno if you knew this but scientists make drugs and they help people |
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11-18-2011, 02:27 AM
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#57 |
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huh
Posts: 62,362
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one of my coaches had some holistic/chiropractic center thing back in the day
when my hamstring exploded one time he insisted i see him there so i did. and he did weird shit with lasers and had me take these little white pellets and none of it worked. at all. waste of time. and uh... this article isn't exactly making it seem like it's a vital part of any medical school or a part at all at most http://www.usnews.com/education/best...icine?PageNr=1 not to back up scotty or anything. but c'mon. for the record i will throw my hat in the "whatever works for people is great" ring. i'm in no place to say. but at the same time i wouldn't put this sort of stuff in the same arena as traditional western medicine. totally different animal, right? |
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11-18-2011, 03:51 AM
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#58 | |
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Socialphobic
Location: you look like you like to hang out. you look like you like to hang out and drink soda
Posts: 12,677
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a little over a year ago i dropped it all cold turkey and replaced meds with vitamins and therapy with acupuncture. overall, im healthier than I have been in a really long time. and even when I have an episode, i'm able to deal with it so much easier, faster, and not depend on pills that dope me out and make me an invalid. whatever they were doing wasn't working for me. if i had stayed on that path the next step planned out for me was electro shock therapy, i kid you not. so clearly, i looked for alternative options. it's like night and day. but again, western medicine has its place and i am an extreme example. everybody's different and like what most people have said, if it works for you, sweet. |
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11-18-2011, 04:27 PM
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#59 |
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BOTTLEG ILLEGAL
Location: I'm faced with so many changes that I just might change my face
Posts: 31,883
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i am glad you are doing better
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11-18-2011, 08:47 PM
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#60 |
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Pledge
 Location: how can you hate on that ending when all the trumpets and tubas come in
Posts: 139
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lol
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