Legal Immigrants increasingly Republican, Anti-Illegal Immigration

Nimrod's Son · 12-03-2007, 08:42 PM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...wuspols115.xml

Republicans winning new citizens for 2008 vote

By Toby Harnden in San Diego, California
Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 10/11/2007

Minutes after taking the Pledge of Allegiance, new American citizens are urged to register as voters by Democratic activists who see them as natural party supporters who could hold the key to the 2008 election.

But with increasing illegal immigration threatening the economy and security of the United States, many legal immigrants anxious to uphold the laws of their adopted country are moving towards the more hard-line immigration stance of Republicans.

New US citizens sworn in in California
More pictures: Swearing in ceremony

Even in California’s Democratic-controlled San Diego, sizeable numbers of America’s newly-minted potential voters said that illegal immigrants should be penalised rather than given an easy route to citizenship as most Democrats advocate.

“For a long time, immigration was OK,” said Sara Wright, 49, a seamstress from Mexico who arrived in the US legally in 1986.

“But now, no more. A lot of really bad people come from Mexico and commit crimes.

“People are coming in and having two, three, four babies and going on welfare. Some are making money here and spending it back in Mexico.

"That’s not right. They should go back to Mexico and get a permit.”

Mrs Wright, whose American-born husband Ed served in the US Navy, was one of 1,591 people from 89 countries who became citizens at a ceremony in San Diego’s Golden Hall on Tuesday.

Nearly two thirds of them were from Mexico, whose border is just 17 miles from the city.

During the 40-minute ceremony, performed by a judge, the new citizens waved American flags, sang “America the Beautiful” and raised their rights hands as they repeated the oath to “abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty” of another nation.
Crossing America: Toby Harnden's voyage across the states
Follow Toby Harnden as he travels from coast to coast to weigh up the mood of US voters

Some men wore ties emblazoned with the stars and stripes while many women dressed in red, white and blue.

After the oath, some wept, others hugged one another and many turned to the public gallery and flashed broad smiles.

With the number of illegal aliens in the US estimated at anything between eight and 20 million people out of a population of around 303 million, how to deal with the problem is becoming an explosive political issue in the 2008 campaign.

President George W. Bush’s plan to provide a “path to citizenship” was rejected by Congress and branded an “amnesty” by many senior Republicans.

Hillary Clinton’s status as front runner for the White House was damaged recently when she declined to criticise a plan in New York state to give driver’s licences to illegal immigrants.

Previously, new citizens could be relied upon to vote Democratic by a ratio of up to 10 to one. But in San Diego this week there were indications that this could be changing.

“I’ve had several people here, Hispanic people, say ‘No, I’m a Republican’,” said Bill De Risa, a Democratic worker eagerly registering voters outside Golden Hall.

His colleague Mary Kennedy said that one woman had told her she wanted to be a Republican because of immigration policy.

“She felt the Democrats were too soft. She wanted higher fences. It’s a very polarising issue.”

Sarah Thomas, 42, a restaurateur originally from Salway Ash, Dorset and one of about two dozen Britons who took US citizenship, said illegal immigrants should be sent home.

“They need to leave and come back legally.

“Just because somebody has been here for 10 years illegally, not paying taxes, does that give them equal rights? No.”

John Pauls, 46, a Canadian-born doctor, said that illegal immigrants were a major burden on the taxpayers who had to foot their health bills and that insecure borders could allow terrorists to come into the US.

“Those that do come into this country illegally are telling us that they are morally and ethically not trustworthy. They should not be here. It’s insulting to those of us who are here legally.”

Many other new citizens, however, took a more conciliatory stance.

Parsa Haghani, 24, born in Iran, said: “We should help to make them legal so they can have all the benefits of this great land.

“They’re here because they want to be part of this country, they want security, freedom and a future. We are a nation of immigrants and we should extend the opportunities we enjoy to others.”

jczeroman · 12-03-2007, 10:19 PM

This doesn't surprise me at all. Most of the really passionate anti-illegal types I've met are first gen americans, almost always.

dudehitscar · 12-03-2007, 10:46 PM

anecdotal news story that means nothing.

redbull · 12-03-2007, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jczeroman

This doesn't surprise me at all.

agreed. I know that I'd personally be pissed. They're giving the legit Mexicans a bad name...

Trotskilicious · 12-03-2007, 11:26 PM

not really surprising that indians who are largely small business owners or doctors are republican. i've heard some of the most ugly libertarian vitrol spewed from first gen arabs. also asian-americans have higher incomes on average than even whites in this country since they don't have all the trash dragging them down so of course they would be republican.

people with money turn to the right since they are usually selfish and short-sighted and have little to no regard for any suffering since they had to work their way up or whatever.

Mayfuck · 12-03-2007, 11:45 PM

oh okay

Mayfuck · 12-03-2007, 11:51 PM

maybe i need to reread the article but i did not find any statistical evidence cited that immigrants are increasingly republican. but there were a lot of quotes spewing fearmongering with baseless attacks that dont advance the dialogue on immigration at all.

ryan patrick · 12-04-2007, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...wuspols115.xml

“I’ve had several people here, Hispanic people, say ‘No, I’m a Republican’,” said Bill De Risa, a Democratic worker eagerly registering voters outside Golden Hall.

oh shit literally several of them

Nimrod's Son · 12-04-2007, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

not really surprising that indians who are largely small business owners or doctors are republican. i've heard some of the most ugly libertarian vitrol spewed from first gen arabs. also asian-americans have higher incomes on average than even whites in this country since they don't have all the trash dragging them down so of course they would be republican.

people with money turn to the right since they are usually selfish and short-sighted and have little to no regard for any suffering since they had to work their way up or whatever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by article

Nearly two thirds of them were from Mexico,

Nimrod's Son · 12-04-2007, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayfuck

maybe i need to reread the article but i did not find any statistical evidence cited that immigrants are increasingly republican. but there were a lot of quotes spewing fearmongering with baseless attacks that dont advance the dialogue on immigration at all.

actually see, that's the problem. you're trying to change the debate. there shouldn't be a "dialogue." there is amazingly a legal way to immigrate to the US! i know this is surprising to many, but it is true!

follow the law or leave. dialogue: over.

Mayfuck · 12-04-2007, 01:40 PM

I don't know about the leave part, its not that cut and dry. but its not complex either. obviously employers should be held accountable for hiring undocumented workers, a stronger border patrol is needed, the concept of "sanctuary" cities need to be abolished and holes along the border need to be sealed off. its just when fringe groups or politicans scare voters along the lines of terrorism coming from mexico or illegal immigrants draining our resources and taking our jobs, to nativist paranoia of our national identity being under siege, thats what I mean when you have these claims that cloud the dialogue and don't advance it yet thats what you see in articles about immigration like the on you posted.

Debaser · 02:54 PM

I forgot where I read this (grain of salt), but ~~the vast majority~~ half of illegal immigrants come here legally at first and just don't go back when their visa expires. So any talk of building fences or increasing border patrol may be quite irrelevant to the solution.

Mayfuck · 12-04-2007, 02:26 PM

I'd be interested in seeing those numbers. I don't doubt that's the situation for a lot of immigrants and not just from Mexico, probably from all over the world.

Debaser · 12-04-2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayfuck

I'd be interested in seeing those numbers. I don't doubt that's the situation for a lot of immigrants and not just from Mexico, probably from all over the world.

ah, I remembered wrong. It's definitely not "vast majority". But nearly half (of hispanics, only?). I'm a little handcuffed at work with most of the internet (research) is blocked.

http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/19.pdf

Mayfuck · 12-04-2007, 03:14 PM

That does seem to put a wrench into the wall argument. But 6 to 7 million is a huge number and indicative of an undermanned and underfunded border patrol. I'm pretty resigned to a lot of arguments in the immigration debate. It's really comes down to Mexico's policy and if their government ever decides to stop being oligarchy and share the country's wealth with its poorest. Until then we'll just continue absorbing its problems as a neighbor.

Nimrod's Son · 12-04-2007, 03:45 PM

Mexico needs to stop encouraging illegal immigration and teaching children in schools (I really wish I had a handy article) that their future is in the US. They hand out pamphlets on how to immigrate illegally.

Bush's interactions with Mexico have been a colossal failure. All he does is praise them, meanwhile they have a corrupt nation who keep trying to push their problems on us

Debaser · 12-04-2007, 03:53 PM

I tend to want to lay much blame on employers, too , especially those that actively seek workers they can pay less for.

Jared the other day pointed out to me the irony of how many of the anti-immigrant, bordering on racist, right-wingers who also worship the right-wing ideal of an unfettered free market, don't stop and realize that our free market demands these low wage illegal immigrant workers.

jczeroman · 12-04-2007, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Debaser

Jared the other day pointed out to me the irony of how many of the anti-immigrant, bordering on racist, right-wingers who also worship the right-wing ideal of an unfettered free market, don't stop and realize that our free market demands these low wage illegal immigrant workers.

This is yet another reason I point to most conservatives having no idea what they believe any more - especially regarding any consistent ideology.

Kanan Road · 12-04-2007, 07:42 PM

wouldn't it be awesome if we had a canidate that wanted to fire up the midnight express, pack them all on union pacific rail, and send them all down below the border?

oops! 50 million mexican nationals stranded in baja! whose problem is it now motherfuckers? we'll see who has the last laugh, mexico!

Debaser · 12-04-2007, 07:45 PM

12-03-2007, 08:42 PM	#1
Nimrod's Son Master of Karate and Friendship Location: in your butt Posts: 72,943	Legal Immigrants increasingly Republican, Anti-Illegal Immigration http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...wuspols115.xml Republicans winning new citizens for 2008 vote By Toby Harnden in San Diego, California Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 10/11/2007 Minutes after taking the Pledge of Allegiance, new American citizens are urged to register as voters by Democratic activists who see them as natural party supporters who could hold the key to the 2008 election. But with increasing illegal immigration threatening the economy and security of the United States, many legal immigrants anxious to uphold the laws of their adopted country are moving towards the more hard-line immigration stance of Republicans. New US citizens sworn in in California More pictures: Swearing in ceremony Even in California’s Democratic-controlled San Diego, sizeable numbers of America’s newly-minted potential voters said that illegal immigrants should be penalised rather than given an easy route to citizenship as most Democrats advocate. “For a long time, immigration was OK,” said Sara Wright, 49, a seamstress from Mexico who arrived in the US legally in 1986. “But now, no more. A lot of really bad people come from Mexico and commit crimes. “People are coming in and having two, three, four babies and going on welfare. Some are making money here and spending it back in Mexico. "That’s not right. They should go back to Mexico and get a permit.” Mrs Wright, whose American-born husband Ed served in the US Navy, was one of 1,591 people from 89 countries who became citizens at a ceremony in San Diego’s Golden Hall on Tuesday. Nearly two thirds of them were from Mexico, whose border is just 17 miles from the city. During the 40-minute ceremony, performed by a judge, the new citizens waved American flags, sang “America the Beautiful” and raised their rights hands as they repeated the oath to “abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty” of another nation. Crossing America: Toby Harnden's voyage across the states Follow Toby Harnden as he travels from coast to coast to weigh up the mood of US voters Some men wore ties emblazoned with the stars and stripes while many women dressed in red, white and blue. After the oath, some wept, others hugged one another and many turned to the public gallery and flashed broad smiles. With the number of illegal aliens in the US estimated at anything between eight and 20 million people out of a population of around 303 million, how to deal with the problem is becoming an explosive political issue in the 2008 campaign. President George W. Bush’s plan to provide a “path to citizenship” was rejected by Congress and branded an “amnesty” by many senior Republicans. Hillary Clinton’s status as front runner for the White House was damaged recently when she declined to criticise a plan in New York state to give driver’s licences to illegal immigrants. Previously, new citizens could be relied upon to vote Democratic by a ratio of up to 10 to one. But in San Diego this week there were indications that this could be changing. “I’ve had several people here, Hispanic people, say ‘No, I’m a Republican’,” said Bill De Risa, a Democratic worker eagerly registering voters outside Golden Hall. His colleague Mary Kennedy said that one woman had told her she wanted to be a Republican because of immigration policy. “She felt the Democrats were too soft. She wanted higher fences. It’s a very polarising issue.” Sarah Thomas, 42, a restaurateur originally from Salway Ash, Dorset and one of about two dozen Britons who took US citizenship, said illegal immigrants should be sent home. “They need to leave and come back legally. “Just because somebody has been here for 10 years illegally, not paying taxes, does that give them equal rights? No.” John Pauls, 46, a Canadian-born doctor, said that illegal immigrants were a major burden on the taxpayers who had to foot their health bills and that insecure borders could allow terrorists to come into the US. “Those that do come into this country illegally are telling us that they are morally and ethically not trustworthy. They should not be here. It’s insulting to those of us who are here legally.” Many other new citizens, however, took a more conciliatory stance. Parsa Haghani, 24, born in Iran, said: “We should help to make them legal so they can have all the benefits of this great land. “They’re here because they want to be part of this country, they want security, freedom and a future. We are a nation of immigrants and we should extend the opportunities we enjoy to others.”

12-04-2007, 02:24 PM	#12
Debaser ghost Location: @SactoMacto Posts: 12,201	I forgot where I read this (grain of salt), but ~~the vast majority~~ half of illegal immigrants come here legally at first and just don't go back when their visa expires. So any talk of building fences or increasing border patrol may be quite irrelevant to the solution. Last edited by Debaser : 12-04-2007 at 02:54 PM.

12-04-2007, 07:45 PM	#20
Debaser ghost Location: @SactoMacto Posts: 12,201	um.

12-03-2007, 10:19 PM	#2
jczeroman Socialphobic Location: In my house. Posts: 14,465	This doesn't surprise me at all. Most of the really passionate anti-illegal types I've met are first gen americans, almost always.

12-03-2007, 10:46 PM	#3
dudehitscar Apocalyptic Poster Posts: 2,652	anecdotal news story that means nothing.

12-03-2007, 11:26 PM	#5
Trotskilicious Banned Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship. Posts: 39,602	not really surprising that indians who are largely small business owners or doctors are republican. i've heard some of the most ugly libertarian vitrol spewed from first gen arabs. also asian-americans have higher incomes on average than even whites in this country since they don't have all the trash dragging them down so of course they would be republican. people with money turn to the right since they are usually selfish and short-sighted and have little to no regard for any suffering since they had to work their way up or whatever.

12-03-2007, 11:45 PM	#6
Mayfuck Banned Location: i'm from japan also hollywood Posts: 57,812	oh okay

12-03-2007, 11:51 PM	#7
Mayfuck Banned Location: i'm from japan also hollywood Posts: 57,812	maybe i need to reread the article but i did not find any statistical evidence cited that immigrants are increasingly republican. but there were a lot of quotes spewing fearmongering with baseless attacks that dont advance the dialogue on immigration at all.

12-04-2007, 01:40 PM	#11
Mayfuck Banned Location: i'm from japan also hollywood Posts: 57,812	I don't know about the leave part, its not that cut and dry. but its not complex either. obviously employers should be held accountable for hiring undocumented workers, a stronger border patrol is needed, the concept of "sanctuary" cities need to be abolished and holes along the border need to be sealed off. its just when fringe groups or politicans scare voters along the lines of terrorism coming from mexico or illegal immigrants draining our resources and taking our jobs, to nativist paranoia of our national identity being under siege, thats what I mean when you have these claims that cloud the dialogue and don't advance it yet thats what you see in articles about immigration like the on you posted.

12-04-2007, 02:26 PM	#13
Mayfuck Banned Location: i'm from japan also hollywood Posts: 57,812	I'd be interested in seeing those numbers. I don't doubt that's the situation for a lot of immigrants and not just from Mexico, probably from all over the world.

12-04-2007, 03:14 PM	#15
Mayfuck Banned Location: i'm from japan also hollywood Posts: 57,812	That does seem to put a wrench into the wall argument. But 6 to 7 million is a huge number and indicative of an undermanned and underfunded border patrol. I'm pretty resigned to a lot of arguments in the immigration debate. It's really comes down to Mexico's policy and if their government ever decides to stop being oligarchy and share the country's wealth with its poorest. Until then we'll just continue absorbing its problems as a neighbor.

12-04-2007, 03:45 PM	#16
Nimrod's Son Master of Karate and Friendship Location: in your butt Posts: 72,943	Mexico needs to stop encouraging illegal immigration and teaching children in schools (I really wish I had a handy article) that their future is in the US. They hand out pamphlets on how to immigrate illegally. Bush's interactions with Mexico have been a colossal failure. All he does is praise them, meanwhile they have a corrupt nation who keep trying to push their problems on us

12-04-2007, 03:53 PM	#17
Debaser ghost Location: @SactoMacto Posts: 12,201	I tend to want to lay much blame on employers, too , especially those that actively seek workers they can pay less for. Jared the other day pointed out to me the irony of how many of the anti-immigrant, bordering on racist, right-wingers who also worship the right-wing ideal of an unfettered free market, don't stop and realize that our free market demands these low wage illegal immigrant workers.

12-04-2007, 07:42 PM	#19
Kanan Road Apocalyptic Poster Location: Cloud Number Nine Posts: 1,569	wouldn't it be awesome if we had a canidate that wanted to fire up the midnight express, pack them all on union pacific rail, and send them all down below the border? oops! 50 million mexican nationals stranded in baja! whose problem is it now motherfuckers? we'll see who has the last laugh, mexico!