The invasion of Iraq: please define what "winning" is

[werideatdusk]

Is it just me or do conservatives use the word "liberal" like 3 times as often as is necessary?

[BuriedSoftly]

Iraq, lol.

[Cup O Mercury]

Originally Posted by werideatdusk

Is it just me or do conservatives use the word "liberal" like 3 times as often as is necessary?

Funny that you point this out. I use the word liberal a lot because I know it makes progressives feel uncomfortable. Liberals are not particularly proud of who they are for lack of principles and values.

I get off when I hear a liberal say how proud he is. It’s an attempt to attain a self filling prophecy.

Though my liberal name calling is becoming ineffective now. The liberals as conquerors are flushed with victory and self righteousness. Now a days they out and proclaim who they are, which will ultimately be there down fall.

[Tchocky]

FACT: Colin Powell told Bush how many troops he believed were necessary to occupy Iraq. Despite the fact that Powell knew Iraq better than anyone else in Bush's cabinet (he oversaw Desert Storm), Bush chose to listen to others regarding how many troop numbers were adequate in Iraq which turned out to be a number much lower than the one Powell suggested.

Why would Bush not go with the suggestions of the one person in his cabinet that knew the area and had experience running a war in that region? Not to mention that Bush Sr. himself said that it would be a disaster to occupy Iraq.

How can this you read this, knowing it is true, and STILL say it's not Bush's fault? He listened to the wrong people, and is paying for it both here and abroad politically. If you're going to do it, do it right.

And don't give me the "the President is a figurehead" and "the president doesn't dictate strategy" garbage. He is the commander-in-chief. He has the final say. And he fucked this up.

[SivaTristessa]

Originally Posted by Cup O Mercury

We are kicking so much ass in Iraq. YOUR LIBERAL MEDIA WONT LET YOU KNOW THIS. Their purpose is to sour the taste of this war. And I see they have found you as a victim.

Right now we are taking the fight to the enemy. So we are taking more casualties as usual.

Our J. Goebbles is the LIBERAL MEDIA!

Are you serious? Oh wait, you live in Virginia, the bastion of states rights' and anti-federalism.

[SivaTristessa]

.

[Cup O Mercury]

Okay Tchocky, what did Bush fuck up with this choice? Is it the looting that happened? I’m not clear on why this choice that he presumably made ruined our goings on there. I just know that the forces committed where adequate for destroying the Iraqi Army.
Are you suggesting that we have a soldier for every thirty Iraqis? I reckon we could send a million soldiers there but that would be expensive. And I think a method of increasing numbers would be unsound and impractical.

We out number the enemy there at almost a hundred to one already.

so what point are you trying to prove with that attached image, cup?

[Cup O Mercury]

Nothing, it is just there.

But In spite of being the ‘sexist conservative’ that I am, I really think Arab woman should have more rights, privilege, and choice.

This thought stems from my arrogant belief that the people of the world should be more like American citizens.

I think that we are the light of the world. Did you know that 96 percent of Republicans think that we are the greatest county in the world, where as only 74% of Democrats think the same?

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Cup O Mercury

Okay Tchocky, what did Bush fuck up with this choice? Is it the looting that happened? I’m not clear on why this choice that he presumably made ruined our goings on there. I just know that the forces committed where adequate for destroying the Iraqi Army.
Are you suggesting that we have a soldier for every thirty Iraqis? I reckon we could send a million soldiers there but that would be expensive. And I think a method of increasing numbers would be unsound and impractical.

We out number the enemy there at almost a hundred to one already.

You're operating under the pretext that the war in Iraq is currently succeeding. Yes, our forces were enough to destroy Saddam's army, but they were also not enough to stabilize the country and prevent local clans and Islamic militias from gaining power and influence and plunging the country into further chaos. If 536,100 American troops during the height of Vietnam (not to mention almost immeasurable amounts of bombs, napalm and Agent Orange dropped on the country) wasn't enough to defeat the V.C., what makes you honestly think that 140,000+ is enough to stabilize Iraq?

The truth is, it's not.

It's been what, four years since the fall of Baghdad? Where's Iraq's army, police force, infrastructure, etc.? How many U.S. soldiers have to die, how many IEDs have to go off, how many Shi'ites and Suunis have to kill each other before you figure out that things are a fucking mess over there? Oh, but that's only the liberal media speaking for me! I forgot! It's all LIES. Everything is hunky-fucking-dory over there! How about you tell that to my friend's fiance, who was almost killed when an IED hit his Humvee?

We need more men there.

You're as much a slave to the conservative media as others are slaves to the liberal media. Of course you're gonna believe that everyone who says Iraq is going badly is a fool if you're only listening to one side of the story. You only listen to the side you want to hear, and that's the side saying "U.S.A. #1," and the reality is, our attempt to make Iraq safe for the democracy it doesn't want is only going to make the part of the world that despises us hate us even more and want to continue their agenda of terror, which is something hawks like you can't seem to figure out. I'm awaiting your predictable "If we leave them alone, they'll build up and attack us!" reply. We'll get attacked either way. I'm picking the lesser of two evils, which is the option that pisses fewer people off.

You complain about the defeatist attitude liberals have over the war in Iraq. And to be honest, it sickens me at times too. I don't want to lose in Iraq. But like Vietnam, we're stuck in a war we cannot win. That's not defeatism. It's reality. We can win in Iraq only through complete annihilation of the enemy. The reality is, conservative Islam will fight to the last man. And I truly hope that the U.S. realizes that, and further realizes that they have two choices: coexist or commit genocide.

And our Josef Goebbels is not the "liberal media". It's Sean Hannity and Tony Snow.

[Cup O Mercury]

In Vietnam we where fighting hundreds and hundreds of thousands of Viet Cong and NVA. We needed a half million trained killers to deal with that. Those people had the numbers to actually sort of go toe to toe with us.
In Iraq we are fighting a few thousand terrorist at most. If they launched any offensive in a conventional way our Marines would wipe them out almost permanently.

We have and had more than enough troops to defeat Terrorist and North Vietnam.

Defeat of Communism was inevitable as the course of war was paved, just like the defeat of Islamo fascist is but YOU are losing the WILL to fight because it is messy.

Absolutely god damn right it’s a fucking mess. It’s a mother fucking WAR. You are just a paper tiger that can be burned, I am polar bear hunting baby seals in the ice.

I believe in Triumph of the WILL. You want to run away at the sight of blood.

The road to defeat is paved with liberalism.

Stop correlating the war on Terror with the conflict in Vietnam. The only similarity is the issue of Triumph of the Will.

[Cup O Mercury]

I'm Committed to deprograming victims of the cult of liberalism.

Being a liberal is a miserable existence.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Cup O Mercury

In Vietnam we where fighting hundreds and hundreds of thousands of Viet Cong and NVA. We needed a half million trained killers to deal with that. Those people had the numbers to actually sort of go toe to toe with us.
In Iraq we are fighting a few thousand terrorist at most. If they launched any offensive in a conventional way our Marines would wipe them out almost permanently.

The Vietnam War was an unconventional war, as is the War in Iraq. And there are a helluva lot more than "a few thousand terrorists" in Iraq. There are Shi'ite and Suunis fighting for supremacy. We invaded with 250,000 people under the false assumption that Iraqis would welcome us with open arms. It hasn't happened and it never will.

We have and had more than enough troops to defeat Terrorist and North Vietnam.

We lost in Vietnam. We're in a quagmire in Iraq.

Defeat of Communism was inevitable as the course of war was paved, just like the defeat of Islamo fascist is but YOU are losing the WILL to fight because it is messy.

Communism defeated itself. It doesn't work. I can't recall the guy, but there was someone in the earlier part of the 20th century that predicted that it would happen, and he was right. I'm not losing the will to fight. I'm losing the will to strong-arm an unwilling people into subscribing to our way of life.

Absolutely god damn right it’s a fucking mess. It’s a mother fucking WAR. You are just a paper tiger that can be burned, I am polar bear hunting baby seals in the ice.

Nice analogy. Might as well have used "I'm an elementary school bully beating the shit out of the little kid because he wouldn't give me his lunch money and actually tried to stand up to me. Fuck everybody else. Look out for #1 and only #1. Bow down to me or die. Try to grow balls, and I'll cut 'em off. I'm better than you." Want to know why the terrorists want to attack us? BECAUSE OUR LEADERS HAVE THIS ATTITUDE!

I believe in Triumph of the WILL. You want to run away at the sight of blood.

You believe in fighting pointless wars in order to show that America is the big dick. I don't want to see people die to forward this agenda, mainly because this will lead to the world resenting us more, and therefore more terrorist attacks. Again, coexist or commit genocide.

The road to defeat is paved with liberalism.

Spare me the bombastic jingoism. America, Fuck Yeah. Only turkeys have left wings. U.S.A. #1.

Stop correlating the war on Terror with the conflict in Vietnam. The only similarity is the issue of Triumph of the Will.

I spent much of the first half of this year researching Vietnam, and there are MANY similarities; more than many people are willing to admit.

[Cup O Mercury]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

The Vietnam War was an unconventional war, as is the War in Iraq. And there are a helluva lot more than "a few thousand terrorists" in Iraq. There are Shi'ite and Suunis fighting for supremacy. We invaded with 250,000 people under the false assumption that Iraqis would welcome us with open arms. It hasn't happened and it never will.

We out gunned the North Vietnamese, but they could still sort of go toe to toe with us especially cause they out numbered us so.. They had jet fighters and artillery. They were materially backed by the Soviet Union and China. I wouldn’t call them unconventional.
The biggest firepower of the freedom fighters of Islam is the rocket propelled grenade. It just doesn’t compare to what the communist where using.
It’s not hardly even guerrilla warfare over there either. The Islamo fascist can’t commit hardly any shock troops because they would all be massacred. They don’t have the numbers to replenish the losses.
There are only about five hundred AQ there, and there are a some Sunni And some Shia that want to directly fight the United States. Maybe it’s four thousand enemy combatants, but not a helluva lot more.
If your beloved France invaded after defeating our military and they where parading down your main street you would not be throwing flowers to them because you would fear the freedom fighters of America. I think that you would welcome them with open arms but it would be dangerous to show this.

We lost in Vietnam. We're in a quagmire in Iraq.

We didn’t lose in Vietnam, we left. their WILL Triumphed

I'm losing the will to strong-arm an unwilling people into subscribing to our way of life.

I’m not losing my will to fight. We will drag them kicking and screaming all the way but in the end they will think us.

Nice analogy. Might as well have used "I'm an elementary school bully beating the shit out of the little kid because he wouldn't give me his lunch money and actually tried to stand up to me. Fuck everybody else. Look out for #1 and only #1. Bow down to me or die. Try to grow balls, and I'll cut 'em off. I'm better than you." Want to know why the terrorists want to attack us? BECAUSE OUR LEADERS HAVE THIS ATTITUDE!

There you are feeling compassion for the enemy again. It’s like you have placed your self in their shoes and then gone on and felt sympathy for the enemy. I think that your respect for them is a step short of traitorous.
What attitude would you deem appropriate in dealing with Islam Fascist?

You believe in fighting pointless wars in order to show that America is the big dick. I don't want to see people die to forward this agenda, mainly because this will lead to the world resenting us more, and therefore more terrorist attacks. Again, coexist or commit genocide.

No I believe that when war is declared on us we threat them with extreme prejudice. Please spare me the save our reputations globally jargon. This is OUR war, I don’t care what France, Germany, and the British think.
The problem with Big Dicks is that we what to fuck all the time when it’s not appropriate. And it takes a pussy to show us that. But pussies can not deal with assholes like Islamo Fascist. You think that everyone can just get along but this is not true. If we leave them alone it will only prolong the inevitable. I believe in offence, you choose defense.

Spare me the bombastic jingoism. America, Fuck Yeah. Only turkeys have left wings. U.S.A. #1.

Team America “Fuck Yeah” is one of my favorite songs. Me and lots of good People where I live have this attitude. We are a very patriotic people, nationalism runs strong we deeply love this country, and we are proud to be Americans. We fucking hate terrorist.

I spent much of the first half of this year researching Vietnam, and there are MANY similarities; more than many people are willing to admit.

I challenge you to make three good similarities. A pointless war or quagmire not being one of them.

[Screwjack]

Originally Posted by Cup O Mercury

I believe in Triumph of the WILL.

The only similarity is the issue of Triumph of the Will.

Way too many Nazi references here...lol.

Say what you will about the for/against viewpoints, the whole reason that the terrorists are there is that there is no more Saddam. Sure, Saddam was an evil fuck, but he kept everyone toe to the line. He had a harsh army and even harsher punishments that he would level out against these terrorist fucks. The whole reason why they're able to attack and move around with impunity is that they don't have to put up with the Republican Guard's SS tactics anymore.

[Cup O Mercury]

I was wondering where I got the phrase from. Thanks. I did see the propaganda film some years ago.

[Cup O Mercury]

Ayman al-Zawahiri Al-Qaida’s second in command says the central front with America is in Iraq.
Isn't this devastating to you?

[Screwjack]

Originally Posted by Cup O Mercury

I was wondering where I got the phrase from. Thanks. I did see the propaganda film some years ago.

Saw it in a History class back in college. There's actually a new biography out on the works of Leni Riefenstahl that is quite interesting and worth checking out. And for anyone else...if you ever want to be truly scared shitless at the effect of propaganda and don't feel like reading through the works of Goebbel's, watch Triumph of the Will.

[Cup O Mercury]

The film quenched my thirst for my fascination with the Third Reich. The film influenced others...

[Screwjack]

Originally Posted by Cup O Mercury

The film quenched my thirst for my fascination with the Third Reich. The film influenced others.

Yeah, I noticed that. Good job with those pics.

[Mo]

Originally Posted by Cup O Mercury

Ever since I was a little boy I have been fascinated with the military. As I grew up on the farm my favorite toys where little green army men with whom I would create mock re enactments of battles I learned about from movies and my Dad. . I would also find strait sticks as if they where guns and I would go PlEEER Plow all day long killing invisible enemies.

In high school I excelled in athletics. I was male athlete of the year in my school of 700. I was good or great at football, track, and wrestling. I am a firm believer in physical fitness as I get this from my mother.

I also love firing guns. It makes me feel so powerful. I like killing deer.

But I was never a leader in all my days of sports. I could only lead by example. I’m afraid that if I were to join I would not find rank easily. I am very introverted. I also suffer from a terrible mood disorder which debilitates me about once a year. I am forced to take powerful medication for this. I am frightened that my potentially unsound actions would get my fellow comrades killed.

Though it seems like I am destined to be in the military, It gives me some satisfaction that my tax dollars pay for what I can not do.

Please tell me you're kidding.

[Cup O Mercury]

No I’m not kidding. I think that I’m too quiet, stupid, and dull-witted to be in the military and be effective or earn rank. Plus at times my methods can be deemed as unsound, and I’m unable to fulfill even my civic duties sometimes.
I am very patriotic and I support the troops in all their endeavors.

[Kanan Road]

The Turks are knocking on the door for the gangbang going on in Iraq.

They have stockpiled their military up on the Turkey/Iraq border in order to
"sieze the Kurdish rebels" which means LAND GRAB IN IRAQ GOGO?

[Cup O Mercury]

If we leave prematurely what is to stop Turkey and Iran taking advantage of the weak Iraqi government?
This is reason #6 why I think it is a bad idea that we cut and run.
The democrat’s foreign policy frightens and sickens me.

[Cup O Mercury]

When I say that ‘when we retreat from Iraq, that they will follow us here’ it just doesn’t move anyone. You just don’t want to believe it, you can’t fathom it. You think that if we leave Al Qaida alone they will un declare war on us.
This disturbs me so.