First presidential debate today at 3:00pm ET / noon PT

[BlueStar]

Originally Posted by Corganist

Then why all the focus on how important it is that this was an AFSCME forum?

And the voters get their info on candidates from the media, do they not? Surely you're not going to sit here and tell me that primary voters are getting the bulk of their info on candidates from meet and greets, faux debates, and staffers knocking on doors.

What's the difference in cowtowing to a special interest group for money or cowtowing to them for volunteers? The point is that the unions are getting one of the first seats at the table, so to speak, in choosing these candidates. These candidates are having to tell the unions what they want to hear first in order to get through the primaries, and the general electorate is left to pick through whoever the special interests initially get behind, be it with their checkbooks or with their legs.

Because AFSCME is a union and as I explained unions are a major deal in NV (as they are in all states, but moreso in NV).

And, actually, yes, the bulk of primary voters in the early primary states (particularly in the caucus states) do get their info from the campaigns and the candidates themselves, not the media. (Though, there is no denying the media has a big role, but it is not the same as the role the media plays in later states and in the general election.) And there is more to it than just meet and greets, debates/forums, and canvassing. And canvassing is the #1 way to get votes. Phoning is the #2 way. This is a proven fact. And in the early primary states, you do literally knock on the door of every fucking voter two to six times.

You are making the assumption that they are cowtowing (sometimes this is true, sometimes it's not). Obviously, every candidate is trying to get votes and wants to win their audience over. However, you can't say one thing to one group and another thing to another group without getting called out on it. And the unions, while important and critical, are not the end all be all when it comes to who will be winning the nomination and who will be winning NV. Unions are a starting point. Just like the local Dem party committees and whatnot are a starting point. But, none of those groups actually determine the result of the election in the early primary states. You've got to start somewhere, but it doesn't end there. And getting volunteers is different from getting money. With unions, for example, the union leaders (especially without an official endorsement) can't force anyone to volunteer for a specific candidate. In going to the unions, for example, it isn't about a special interest having influence on an election as much as it is about individual voters. And, again, unions are simply good base of voters to start with. And, also again, if the special interests controlled the elections in the early primary states, Kerry never would have been the nominee in '04, Clinton never would have been the nominee in '92, and so on and so on.

Now, I'm certainly not one to deny the influence of special interests and money in elections (otherwise I wouldn't be such a big clean elections advocate). However, the earliest presidential primaries are quite different from other elections. Just like primaries are different from generals, Repub campaigns are different from Dem campaigns, Iowa campaigns are different from California campaigns, Senatorial campaigns are different from city council campaigns, and so on and so on. While, of course, there are similarities throughout each, they are each their own animal. And, bottom line, in the earliest presidential primary states, special interests (no matter how they try to excerpt influence) don't get their way.