kobe bryant is the best player in the nba

[Shapan]

i dont like kobe, i never have. ive always thought he was too arrogant, and he's probably the biggest reason my favorite player got dealt from the lakers for an undeserving piece of trash. (when eddie jones got dealt for glen rice)

but i just saw highlights of that game he had last night. he's an amazing player. my god. he made 11 shots in a row, all on fucking AK47, and, when AK started torching luke walton kobe guarded him and shut him down. and all through the year, whether it's because of his knee or not, the guy has had more confidence in his teammates than ive seen in any other laker season.

there are plenty of arguments. lebron is better. yes, lebron is a damn good player, and he proved that he could make big shots last year. but what can he do that kobe cant? theres only so much you can say just because lebron has a couple more assists or boards in his stats. doesnt make him a better player.

but the big thing that separates kobe from lebron, kobe plays amazing defense. lebron has had flashes where he plays D, but hes not going to be making the all defensive team any time soon.

yeah, dwyane is also amazing. but he has seriously sucked without shaq, miami has looked pathetic this season. he completely dominated dallas last year in the finals and im a big dwyane wade fan, but that team needs shaq in the middle. the fucking knicks bitched them around this year. "well kobe hasnt won shit without shaq" ok, but his team went from no POs 2 years ago to nearly knocking off the suns last year, give him some time the lakers are making strides. that improvement happened, and the lakers conceivably got worse by losing caron butler and adding kwame brown.

steve nash is the best at setting up his team but he cant play D and just isnt capable of what kobe brings to the table. the best player to put against kobe is tim duncan, but even then its so hard to compare bigs with smalls. tim duncan is a great player and one of the best to ever play the game, and he's been a proven champ, but he has shrunk quite a few times in big games. i cant really remember many game defining clutch shots hes made in the playoffs, when i think of spurs clutch playoff shots the pass half decade robert horry, sean elliot, and even avery johnson come to mind before duncan. (duncan is obviously more important to the spurs than them, but you know what i mean)

its early in the morning and i just felt like this random nba rant for the sports people on the board.

[avian chaos]

I have trouble with Kobe for the same reason. He's fucking amazing but I feel like he's really arrogant, too.

Steve Nash gives me the fucking creeps. Thank God that weirdo finally got a haircut.

[Mayfuck]

I love Kobe. My favorite player in any sport ever. I would gladly suck his dick.

[Trotskilicious]

there's this guy named LeBron, i don't know if you've heard of him. Then there's Dirk who is seven foot and can shoot from anywhere on the court.

[Trotskilicious]

If you're the primary scorer, if you get more boards than the other primary scorers = you are a better player.

[I'm Hardcore]

yeah in terms of what he does for his team, i think LeBron just shades Kobe.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Mayfuck

I love Kobe. My favorite player in any sport ever. I would gladly suck his dick.

And then sue him for rape?

[teh b0lly!!1]

he's a showman, thats all there is to it.
he's got skills, definitely, but he's not a player that has the ability to make players around him better, and he sure as hell cant bring his team to a title without having a little shaq by his side.
all those championships that brought him a reputation of a winner were actually all shaq's.
in that regard i think lebron's better because he takes his team further, but its a pretty insignificant difference.

[wHATcOLOR]

Originally Posted by Mayfuck

I love Kobe. My favorite player in any sport ever. I would gladly suck his dick.

oh mayf'

[Shapan]

Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1

he's a showman, thats all there is to it.
he's got skills, definitely, but he's not a player that has the ability to make players around him better, and he sure as hell cant bring his team to a title without having a little shaq by his side.
all those championships that brought him a reputation of a winner were actually all shaq's.
in that regard i think lebron's better because he takes his team further, but its a pretty insignificant difference.

watch games 1-4 last year of the phoenix series last year, i think kobe took a huge stride in his game. he really gave that series to his teammates, it frustrated me that the lakers couldnt keep it up and take the series, but for the first time i was rooting for the lakers. (i also had added incentive because i wanted my clips to beat them in the next round, which wouldve been such a cool battle of LA thing)

shaq was in his prime when the lakers won titles and finally had good direction with jackson there. (the kobe/shaq/eddie jones/van exel team wouldve been even more of a juggernaut if jackson was coaching them and not del piece of fucking shit harris) it doesnt matter who you put alongside shaq, with someone of his dominance of course he'd be the reason you win championships. you're penalizing kobe because he played with shaq, and i think thats kind of ridiculous. michael jordan would not have won 6 rings if he didnt have someone like scottie pippen by his side, either. shaq wouldnt have won those titles without kobe or someone of kobe's high potential, people often give shaq more credit because bigs are harder to come by. kobe was the go to guy in those laker games because shaq couldnt hit a free throw. in my opinion, even though this is debatable, kobe is just as responsible for those championships as shaq.

and yes, lebron is solid, but what makes you really say he could take his team further than kobe? because he got passed the wizards and brought the pistons to 6 games? the pistons were a shell of the championship pistons or even the larry brown pistons in general by last year, that team crumbled in the playoffs to miami. miami didnt get better to get past the pistons, the pistons got worse. lebron was a couple of gilbert arenas free throws away from possibly not even making it past the first round, and the cavs caught the pistons at their lowest. (id also take larry hughes, big Z, donyell marshall, and drew gooden over lamar odom, smush parker, kwame brown, and luke walton) and the way the run and gun suns were playing under nash's brilliance whose to say the pistons were any better than the suns during the playoffs last year? the lakers and the clippers definitely werent pushovers, and they pushed dallas quite a bit. (as a matter of fact, had the suns made the finals, im pretty sure they wouldve beaten miami. once dallas stopped running they stopped winning against miami, and the suns wouldve ran shaq to the ground. dwyane can only do so much) my biggest thing against lebron right now is he is lazy on the defensive end, while kobe has already made the all defensive team a few times.

[Trotskilicious]

LeBron doesn't merely get more rebounds than kobe, he also gets more assists. The guy just turned 20 didn't he? He's so fucking good. Fuck Kobe. Fuck him in the ear.

Fuck him in the other ear!

[teh b0lly!!1]

Originally Posted by Shapan

watch games 1-4 last year of the phoenix series last year, i think kobe took a huge stride in his game. he really gave that series to his teammates, it frustrated me that the lakers couldnt keep it up and take the series, but for the first time i was rooting for the lakers. (i also had added incentive because i wanted my clips to beat them in the next round, which wouldve been such a cool battle of LA thing)

shaq was in his prime when the lakers won titles and finally had good direction with jackson there. (the kobe/shaq/eddie jones/van exel team wouldve been even more of a juggernaut if jackson was coaching them and not del piece of fucking shit harris) it doesnt matter who you put alongside shaq, with someone of his dominance of course he'd be the reason you win championships. you're penalizing kobe because he played with shaq, and i think thats kind of ridiculous. michael jordan would not have won 6 rings if he didnt have someone like scottie pippen by his side, either. shaq wouldnt have won those titles without kobe or someone of kobe's high potential, people often give shaq more credit because bigs are harder to come by. kobe was the go to guy in those laker games because shaq couldnt hit a free throw. in my opinion, even though this is debatable, kobe is just as responsible for those championships as shaq.

and yes, lebron is solid, but what makes you really say he could take his team further than kobe? because he got passed the wizards and brought the pistons to 6 games? the pistons were a shell of the championship pistons or even the larry brown pistons in general by last year, that team crumbled in the playoffs to miami. miami didnt get better to get past the pistons, the pistons got worse. lebron was a couple of gilbert arenas free throws away from possibly not even making it past the first round, and the cavs caught the pistons at their lowest. (id also take larry hughes, big Z, donyell marshall, and drew gooden over lamar odom, smush parker, kwame brown, and luke walton) and the way the run and gun suns were playing under nash's brilliance whose to say the pistons were any better than the suns during the playoffs last year? the lakers and the clippers definitely werent pushovers, and they pushed dallas quite a bit. (as a matter of fact, had the suns made the finals, im pretty sure they wouldve beaten miami. once dallas stopped running they stopped winning against miami, and the suns wouldve ran shaq to the ground. dwyane can only do so much) my biggest thing against lebron right now is he is lazy on the defensive end, while kobe has already made the all defensive team a few times.

you make some good points.
i agree, stating that the championships are all shaq's is a bit exaggerated, but i do think shaq is more responsible for them than kobe.
dont forget that kobe, in the end, was more so responsible for the complete destruction of the team texture. all the ego fights and the arrogance battles that made life for the lakers very hard, and which ultimately led to the imploding of the entire team, were led or caused by him.
yes, kobe is responsible for those championships too; he has his chunk, for sure.
but i think any other 'star' would have done the same exact job as him with shaq by his side. the success of the team relied more on shaq's dominance in those times, and not on kobe's antics.
oh and btw, do you think that if kobe had a pippen on his side nowadays, he would be as dominant as jordan championship wise?
no fucking way. the guy's an asshole and a ball hog, and even if he had terrific players by his side, im not so sure he'd make good use of them as jordan did.
kobe is just like young jordan was right now - he has a mediocre team and loads of talent, and he just needs to come around and understand the game is about more than his personal statistic line.
as soon as jordan realized that, it made him ten times more dangerous. not only was he unstoppable, everyone around him knew their place and did their job (i.e kerr's three pointer that won the game and countless other cases).
and ultimately it made him impossible to guard, because he could either take you to the hoop or pass the ball to the open man. and i think thats what made him such an amazing player.
whats even more incredible is that he took six championships without a real center - something which kobe could never do, even if he had a great player like pippen by his side.
but thats hardly factual stuff - only speculation\opinion.

btw, what i said about lebron - i didnt necessarily mean that he literally took his team farther; rather, i meant that his team plays more like a team than anything with kobe in it.
and even though he's only in his beginning, he's showing that realization i was talking about before - and every year he comes back a little bit stronger and better, and his team is more of a playoffs threat with every passing year.

[Shapan]

well, they've only made the playoffs once. i think cleveland is really overrated. i wonder if they'll lose again to atlanta tonight? the x factor on that team is larry hughes, if he plays like the badass he was in washington his last year, cleveland will be much better. cleveland simply has better players than LA, its hard to compare those teams. kobe has averaged 30, 7, and 6 himself, and aside from shaq and then lamar, he really hasnt had many noteworthy players play with him. yeah, maybe you dont think he'd do anything with better players, but he hasnt had a choice with the hand he's been dealt right now. but even then, he's starting to trust his teammates.

and yeah, the kobe/shaq feud was a bit much, but lets not forget about the money. shaq did demand money from kupchak, and, the cheap fuck he is, didnt want to pay. its obvious shaq/kobe didnt get along too well, but at the end of the day the lakers wanted to invest their future in a young kobe rather than an aging shaq. i dont think its fair to blame kobe for the lakers dynasty breakup. shaq couldve taken a pay cut, there were two people in this feud and shaq needs to shoulder some of the blame for the breakup as well.

and yeah, jordan didnt start winning championships until he was 28, which is how old kobe is right now. i dont think kobe's killer instinct was a bad thing during the shaq era, they needed him to be that kind of player that would take over the end of games because they really had no one else aside from shaq. rice was practically done the one year he was there(such a piece of shit to get for eddie who was one of the players two way players in the league in charlotte during that year), derek fisher and horry are ballsy but they're pretty much spot up shooters, fox was underrated but that didnt make him anything special. the lakers were really pretty weak outside of shaq and kobe during their dynasty, so having kobe take over games(ie vs indy when shaq fouled out in the finals) was necessary. now he's adjusting, and it has taken him some time, but you have to admit this season and during the POs last year he has been playing with great poise. he stumbled a bit at the end of the POs last year, but the suns completely outmatched the lakers and the fact that the lakers took them to 7 is pretty crazy in itself. you also have to wonder how kobe's knee was doing by the end of that series.

kobe and caron butler actually had solid rapport on the court, i was hoping they'd keep him and that would blossom. instead, kobe has lamar odom and a bunch of trash as his supporting cast(yes, some have potential, but right now they arent very helpful). and when you pass the ball to players and they continuously brick shots(ie game 7 vs phoenix last year), it does make it a little harder for you to pass it to them all the time. ive seen laker games, kobe has had nights where he's passed the ball and his teammates simply can't make shots. you can have all the confidence in the world in your teammates but they have to hit shots, and i think steve kerr, toni kukoc, john paxson made a couple more shots than smush parker and kwame brown.

all in all, i think kobe is just starting a new stage in his career where he is placing more trust in his teammates, even if they arent the best teammates in the world. him and lamar are working very well together these days, and i think they are one piece away from being a serious contender. i do think lamar can take the scottie role, even if it will take him time. lamar is always bashed out here in LA, but he has some unique skills and is one of the hardest players to guard in the league.

i can understand the argument with lebron, he is a great talent. but ive seen kobe make the players around him better, and people that have watched the lakers this year and the playoff run have seen that too. if lebron would play consistent D, the argument would be stronger. kobe's adjusting to a completely different role after a dynasty, it's taken him time but you can see him adjusting, and he has perhaps the best work ethic and the most killer instinct in the league. lebron just hasnt impressed me defensively and he seems to be lazy at times, and defense wins championships.

[Kanan Road]

Nobody else matters because Kobe is a LAKER. That makes him better than Dirk or LeBron.

[Trotskilicious]

jesus christ you guys, i don't even manage to talk about college football that much.

[Trotskilicious]

just face facts, pape sow is the best player in the leauge.

[Cell Tech]

good thing he didnt go to jail for raping that girl. but i guess reparations have to be made for slavery in one way or another

[Trotskilicious]

i think the fact that oj's not in prison makes up for a lot.

[Kanan Road]

OJ is a savage nigger.

[I'm Hardcore]

shit