Conservatives Vs. Liberals on this board...

I always find it so funny that the board is so opposite the country as a whole... granted, this poll might not have been very scientific, but it's still funny. The Pledge ruling apparently isn't as popular as it is here.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/29/poll.pledge/index.html

Then again, this can also be contributed to the good ol' American tradition of "Whatever, I don't give a fuck."

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

It really doesn't matter what they think, because it's clearly unconsitutional. The constitution is clearly fine for these people when it supports their right to keeping a shotgun where their kids can find them.

Blah.

wow, 87% of americans are fucking stupid.

Oh yes, I know that the general consensus here on netphoria is nowhere near that of the entire nation. I live in Orlando Florida. You can only imagine the change in the political atmosphere when I venture from Netphoria into the 'real world'.

The timing of the ruling wasn't too good, either.

Originally posted by Irrelevant:
wow, 87% of americans are fucking stupid.

Wow, you're ignorant

Just because people don't agree with you, they're fucking stupid?

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser:
Wow, you're ignorant

Just because people don't agree with you, they're fucking stupid?

In this case, yes.

Originally posted by Graveflower:
It really doesn't matter what they think, because it's clearly unconsitutional. The constitution is clearly fine for these people when it supports their right to keeping a shotgun where their kids can find them.

Blah.

The Constitution itself has many mentions of "God"... so the Constitution itself is fucking unconstitutional.

http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/rolleyes.gif

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

Originally posted by Graveflower:
In this case, yes.

http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/biggrin.gif

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser:
The Constitution itself has many mentions of "God"... so the Constitution itself is fucking unconstitutional.

http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/rolleyes.gif

AMENDMENT I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

Originally posted by Graveflower:
AMENDMENT I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

Thank You, Captain Obvious

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser:
Just because people don't agree with you, they're fucking stupid?

Ok, I will spell it out for you. The first amendment clearly says that the government shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, right?

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
Date: 13th century
1 a : the state of a religious b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance


There are, believe it or not, Godless people in America, and a pretty substantial amount of them. By putting that in the pledge, you are excluding them as American people. They are not under any God, and because of that, it is implied that they are not worthy of being Americans.

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser:
Wow, you're ignorant

Just because people don't agree with you, they're fucking stupid?

i'd say that people who hate religious freedom are pretty fucking stupid.

also.

9% people said the pledge should not contain "under God."

36% of people said that the government should avoid promoting religion in any way.

doesn't this seem like a bit of a contradiction?

and if 54% of people want to have the government promote religion, that's really really sad.

That poll doesn't come as much of a surprise to me considering that over 90% of Americans believe in God. Couple that with the fact that most people are inconsiderate of others and there you go.

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http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mledrew/samus.gif

Originally posted by ******:
Ok, I will spell it out for you. The first amendment clearly says that the government shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, right?

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
Date: 13th century
1 a : the state of a religious b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance


There are, believe it or not, Godless people in America, and a pretty substantial amount of them. By putting that in the pledge, you are excluding them as American people. They are not under any God, and because of that, it is implied that they are not worthy of being Americans.

And there is no Law that said you HAD to say the fucking pledge of allegiance. If you don't want to say it, don't say it. If you want to leave out the "under God" part, leave it out. Same as praying at football games. If you don't want to pray, don't pray.

Sure, you should respect the beliefs of the minority, but you should also respect the beliefs of the majority as well.

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

[This message has been edited by BeautifulLoser (edited 06-30-2002).]

Originally posted by Irrelevant:
and if 54% of people want to have the government promote religion, that's really really sad.

See, there's a loophole. The government cannot establish religion, but congress can apply whatever kind of religious ethics they want to a bill and eventually pass it and make it a law. So, if 51% of Americans are of the same religious domination...100% will be.

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser:
Wow, you're ignorant

Just because people don't agree with you, they're fucking stupid?

They're not stupid; they're hypocrites. They don't believe in freedom at all, they only believe in their OWN freedom.

Originally posted by Irrelevant:
i'd say that people who hate religious freedom are pretty fucking stupid.

also.

9% people said the pledge should not contain "under God."

36% of people said that the government should avoid promoting religion in any way.

doesn't this seem like a bit of a contradiction?

and if 54% of people want to have the government promote religion, that's really really sad.

Ok, let's see... if 91% of people believe in God, of COURSE they wouldn't see anything wrong with putting God in the Pledge.. so that doesn't suprise me. As for the 54% that want the government to promote religion... I agree, that's shit.

But I find it funny that if someone put a picture of Buddha in a courthouse, the general concesus would be "Hey, that's pretty neat, they're being tolerant of other religions.." but if you try to put up the Ten Commandments, it's "OH MY GOD!! THEY'RE PROMOTING CHRISTIANITY! TAKE IT DOWN NOW!"

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser:
And there is no Law that said you HAD to say the fucking pledge of allegiance. If you don't want to say it, don't say it. If you want to leave out the "under God" part, leave it out. Same as praying at football games. If you don't want to pray, don't pray.

I know I don't have to say it, but you've never been on the butt end of 30 students and a teacher ridiculing you for not saying the stupid pledge because of those two words, have you?

It's state endorsed, and that is what's wrong.

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser:
But I find it funny that if someone put a picture of Buddha in a courthouse, the general concesus would be "Hey, that's pretty neat, they're being tolerant of other religions.." but if you try to put up the Ten Commandments, it's "OH MY GOD!! THEY'RE PROMOTING CHRISTIANITY! TAKE IT DOWN NOW!"

Dude...don't make sweeping assumptions like that when you argue.

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser:
And there is no Law that said you HAD to say the fucking pledge of allegiance. If you don't want to say it, don't say it. If you want to leave out the "under God" part, leave it out. Same as praying at football games. If you don't want to pray, don't pray.

Sure, you should respect the beliefs of the minority, but you should also respect the beliefs of the majority as well.

it's socially frowned upon not to pledge allegience.

the Under God part was added by a resolution by congress, i'd say pretty strongly that falls under the jurisdiction of not making laws about the establishment of religion.

consider, for a moment, that you were the minority. say this was an islamic nation, with the same constitution and the same pledge, only with the words "under Allah" and your currency said "in Allah we trust."

you're in 1st grade, and every day you're expected to stand up and pledge allegience to a nation "under Allah."

how would you feel about this? how would you feel about your children being expected to pledge the same way? wouldn't you expect the religious freedom the constitution guarantees you?

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser:
And there is no Law that said you HAD to say the fucking pledge of allegiance. If you don't want to say it, don't say it. If you want to leave out the "under God" part, leave it out. Same as praying at football games. If you don't want to pray, don't pray.

You don't say the pledge, kids make fun of you. Teachers put you on the spot about it. Kids call you a devil worshipper when you say you don't like the Under God part.

Yeah, I had a big choice in not saying the pledge of allegiance.

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser:


But I find it funny that if someone put a picture of Buddha in a courthouse, the general concesus would be "Hey, that's pretty neat, they're being tolerant of other religions.." but if you try to put up the Ten Commandments, it's "OH MY GOD!! THEY'RE PROMOTING CHRISTIANITY! TAKE IT DOWN NOW!"

Unlikely.

Originally posted by ******:

I know I don't have to say it, but you've never been on the butt end of 30 students and a teacher ridiculing you for not saying the stupid pledge because of those two words, have you?

It's state endorsed, and that is what's wrong.

Actually, no I haven't... but I've been ridiculed for being Christian. But I'm not screaming intolerance to the people that ridicule me, am I? I'm not screaming intolerance when they tell me I can't pray in school...

This argument is pointless.

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

[hijack]

Besides, I don't think there's any part of the buddhist doctrine that says that you will suffer eternally if you don't follow a few certain rules. If you want to think there's a difference between Buddhism and Christianity, that's it right there.

[/hijack]

Originally posted by ******:
Dude...don't make sweeping assumptions like that when you argue.

Why not? It might be extreme, but it's damn true...

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser:
I'm not screaming intolerance when they tell me I can't pray in school...

They don't tell you that. They tell you that it can't be taught.

Originally posted by Irrelevant:
it's socially frowned upon not to pledge allegience.

the Under God part was added by a resolution by congress, i'd say pretty strongly that falls under the jurisdiction of not making laws about the establishment of religion.

consider, for a moment, that you were the minority. say this was an islamic nation, with the same constitution and the same pledge, only with the words "under Allah" and your currency said "in Allah we trust."

you're in 1st grade, and every day you're expected to stand up and pledge allegience to a nation "under Allah."

how would you feel about this? how would you feel about your children being expected to pledge the same way? wouldn't you expect the religious freedom the constitution guarantees you?

You're neglecting one fact: in Islam, you can do whatever you please to infidels. Therefore, logically, if you didn't say the pledge, you'd likely be under a lot more torment than simple taunting.

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser:
Actually, no I haven't... but I've been ridiculed for being Christian. But I'm not screaming intolerance to the people that ridicule me, am I? I'm not screaming intolerance when they tell me I can't pray in school...

What? You are allowed to pray in school. I don't care if you pray in school because it's not state endorsed. That is the difference. Your actions are not state endorsed, however, the schools' are.

Originally posted by Irrelevant:
it's socially frowned upon not to pledge allegience.

the Under God part was added by a resolution by congress, i'd say pretty strongly that falls under the jurisdiction of not making laws about the establishment of religion.

consider, for a moment, that you were the minority. say this was an islamic nation, with the same constitution and the same pledge, only with the words "under Allah" and your currency said "in Allah we trust."

you're in 1st grade, and every day you're expected to stand up and pledge allegience to a nation "under Allah."

how would you feel about this? how would you feel about your children being expected to pledge the same way? wouldn't you expect the religious freedom the constitution guarantees you?

I'd tell my kids that it's alright to say the pledge, but if they feel uncomfortable saying "Under Allah", then don't say it. I'm sure that if they're standing there in a group of 1st graders and they leave out two words, no one's going to notice.

I've had friends that do this, and no one ever says anything to them... maybe I'm just from a really tolerant town or something.

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

you can pray all you want to in school, provided you're not expected to be doing schoolwork. the faculty cannot lead you in prayer, or encourage you to pray, however.