the power of nightmares

[sleeper]

has anyone seen this documentary? and if so what did you think of it or its key arguments?

it hasnt been broadcast in the states, and doesnt look like it ever will, but it was apparently a big hit on the BBC, is making its rounds on the internet, and is now playing on the CBC is canada. im sure some of you english people have seen it

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/3755686.stm

[Nimrod's Son]

Ah so terrorists don't really exist. The Towers just collapsed due to plane crashes.

And what the hell is up with this?:

After nearly 10 years of fighting, Soviet troops pulled out of Afghanistan.

Both the neo-conservatives and the Islamists believed that it is they who defeated the "evil empire" and now had the power to transform the world.

But both failed in their revolutions.

In response, the neo-conservatives invented a new fantasy enemy, Bill Clinton, focusing on the scandal surrounding him and Monica Lewinsky.

Huh? Neo-cons create Clinton as a "fantasy enemy" because of Afghanistan? They're drawing too many unrelated conclusions.

[sleeper]

i know, the blurb they put up oversimplifies the content and makes it sound totally radical and childish, i was kind of dismayed by it. all i can say is that you have to see the actual documentary, its amazingly well presented and researched and i think even someone like you would appreciate it.

[Pmack]

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son
Ah so terrorists don't really exist. The Towers just collapsed due to plane crashes.

Their point is that previous to 9/11, "al Qaida" was a ragtag collection of marginalized losers who took a desperate shot at the US to gain some attention from muslims. Bushco gave them exactly what they wanted, attention and recognition as a nefarious terrorist organization, despite all evidence to the contrary.

[Corganist]

Originally posted by Pmack


Their point is that previous to 9/11, "al Qaida" was a ragtag collection of marginalized losers who took a desperate shot at the US to gain some attention from muslims. Bushco gave them exactly what they wanted, attention and recognition as a nefarious terrorist organization, despite all evidence to the contrary.

Evidence to the contrary? Like what? WTC '93? The Embassy bombings in '98? The USS Cole? C'mon now. Its fair to think the terrorist threat has been overblown by the administration, but to treat it as some sort of concoction out of thin air is just asinine. 9/11 was not a fluke, no matter how much thinking it was makes it easier to sleep.

[sleeper]

Originally posted by Corganist

Evidence to the contrary? Like what? WTC '93? The Embassy bombings in '98? The USS Cole? C'mon now. Its fair to think the terrorist threat has been overblown by the administration, but to treat it as some sort of concoction out of thin air is just asinine. 9/11 was not a fluke, no matter how much thinking it was makes it easier to sleep.

the documentary doesnt necessarily downplay the general threat of terrorism as it does the al-qaeda threat. one of its main points is that the al-qaeda is much less organized and important than the administration makes them out to be. people just need a clear enemy, a face. on another note is funny how much both sides are playing right into each others hands. its too good

just trust me once and see the documentary. its not from a radical liberal perspective or anything like that, it just bluntly looks at the last 60 years with little bullshit or hysteria. im convinced youll like it. besides, your hero leo strauss is all over it, which probably is turning you on just thinking about it

[GlasgowKiss]

Good series.

[Pmack]

Originally posted by Corganist

Its fair to think the terrorist threat has been overblown by the administration, but to treat it as some sort of concoction out of thin air is just asinine.

Like sleeper said, you need to watch the documentary and see the "evidence" in context.

In the 80s, the neo-cons argued that the Soviet Union was deeply embedded in hundreds of countries and was involved in various plots to undermine all aspects of life for the west. The lack of actual evidence for these plots, they argued, was evidence that they were sneakier than we gave them credit for, because they -were- doing these things, we were too unsophisticated to be able to track their schemes.

FF to 2001, and we're hearing the same kinds of arguments with al Qaeda-- sleeper cells ready to pounce at moment's notice, radiation bombs smuggled in suitcases, chemical war right around the corner. al Qaeda in 120 countries, etc.

In the 80s, the neo-cons were dismissed at kooks, and time bears that assesment out. They were spectacularly wrong on everything they hypothesized.

The same exact people --Wolfowitz, Cheney, Perle, Rumsfeld, etc.-- are selling us the al-Qaeda threat.

The neo-cons needed an enemy like the Russians in the post-Cold War world, and al-Qaeda fit that bill nicely.

Here's a link to a torrent for the doumentary.

[sleeper]

Originally posted by GlasgowKiss
Good series.

go on

[GlasgowKiss]

Originally posted by sleeper


go on

It had information, and i enjoyed it!

[sleeper]

i cant believe more people havent seen this. i thought it was like a huge sensation over in the UK. like the beatles or something. everyone was talking about. no seriously i thought it was big over there

deviousj dont tell you havent seen this. i wont stand for that

[GlasgowKiss]

Originally posted by sleeper
i cant believe more people havent seen this. i thought it was like a huge sensation over in the UK. like the beatles or something. everyone was talking about. no seriously i thought it was big over there

deviousj dont tell you havent seen this. i wont stand for that

It was pretty much on the fringe of a fringe genre.