seriously people, what's wrong with... - Page 2

Eulogy · 08-06-2004, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by phaedrus

actually, it's quite the opposite.
it's you who bases your opinions solely on the marginal percentage of underagers that have horrible experiences. i think if actually had all of the facts in front of you, you'd be pretty damn surprised at the number of underagers who fuck, and have no regrets.

so yeah, good luck buddy.

How many 12-year-olds are having sex? wtf?

If you're talking about 16-year-olds, then yeah, you might have a point. But look at my other post. A line HAS to be drawn somewhere. And 18 is about as logical a place as any. It's a hard thing to do...and it's never going to make perfect sense. But it has to be done.

Eulogy · 08-06-2004, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spa ced

I'm more for the line being drawn by the individual or the individual's parents rather than the Government. The parents have a better understanding of the individual emotional and mental development of their child than the Government does.
If parents do their job correctly than a child would know that he or she should wait for sex until they felt completely ready for it.

Are you aware that most parents suck and/or have little to no control over their children for a variety of reasons?

phaedrus · 08-06-2004, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eulogy

Because the line HAS to be drawn somewhere.

If there is no line, then there is no distinction between children and adults. And there HAS to be one. Sure, 18 isn't the perfect age. But it's as close as it can get. No system is without its flaws. But I'm surprised that the importance of having a line drawn somewhere isn't blatantly obvious to everyone.

god forbid we should consider things case by case in this world. everything has to be generalized and quantified. what happened to qualitative assessment? how is it that the written law has superceded morality?

drawn lines are for the weak. they're pathetic. they're unpragmatic.

Eulogy · 08-06-2004, 11:39 AM

You're just being a total idealist here. You need to come back to the real world for a second and think about how things actually are.

Eulogy · 08-06-2004, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by phaedrus

god forbid we should consider things case by case in this world. everything has to be generalized and quantified. what happened to qualitative assessment? how is it that the written law has superceded morality?

drawn lines are for the weak. they're pathetic. they're unpragmatic.

Do you know how many people there are? That sounds like a retarded statement....but jesus christ. To suggest that this be a case by case thing is completely unrealistic and stupid.

phaedrus · 08-06-2004, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eulogy

Are you aware that most parents suck and/or have little to no control over their children for a variety of reasons?

which is exactly why i think we need to give more youth credit for their own responsibility. you underestimate their capability of good judgment.

sure there are many who lack good judgment, i don't deny that. i just think that they seem to be painting the face we see. they're the ones creating stereotypes that completely ignore the success stories out there, of which there are many.

spa ced · 08-06-2004, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ammy

and some people CAN drive well drunk, and some people CAN own uzis without attatcking everyone, and some eople CAN drive when they are 12, and some people CAN make political decisions when they are 16, and kids drink alaochol when they are 5 in france, and some people who carry concealed weapons ARE doing it only for personal protection....

Are you trying to convince me to become liberterian? If so, its working...

ammy · 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spa ced

Are you trying to convince me to become liberterian? If so, its working...

shhhhhh

Eulogy · 08-06-2004, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by phaedrus

which is exactly why i think we need to give more youth credit for their own responsibility. you underestimate their capability of good judgment.

sure there are many who lack good judgment, i don't deny that. i just think that they seem to be painting the face we see. they're the ones creating stereotypes that completely ignore the success stories out there, of which there are many.

No I don't.

If someone's parents suck, then most likely, they aren't going to make very good judgements for themselves.

The many who lack good judgement need to be protected. And because the vast majority of kids lack the good judgement that is necessary to make decisions based on sexual relationships, a line has to be drawn.

phaedrus · 08-06-2004, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eulogy

Do you know how many people there are? That sounds like a retarded statement....but jesus christ. To suggest that this be a case by case thing is completely unrealistic and stupid.

how is it so unrealistic? if it's not consentual, a complaint is lodged, it's settled in court. it doesn't sound much different from our current system, except that there are no parents acting "on behalf" of their children. when the reality is that parents are actually acting to satisfy their own beliefs.

Eulogy · 08-06-2004, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by phaedrus

how is it so unrealistic? if it's not consentual, a complaint is lodged, it's settled in court. it doesn't sound much different from our current system, except that there are no parents acting "on behalf" of their children. when the reality is that parents are actually acting to satisfy their own beliefs.

So if an 11-year-old and a 19-year-old have a consensual relationship, then it's obviously ok? since the 11-year-old showed consent?

And any sex that isn't consensual is a crime. So uh. I don't see what point you were trying to make.

phaedrus · 08-06-2004, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eulogy

No I don't.

If someone's parents suck, then most likely, they aren't going to make very good judgements for themselves.

The many who lack good judgement need to be protected. And because the vast majority of kids lack the good judgement that is necessary to make decisions based on sexual relationships, a line has to be drawn.

yes you do!

(thanks, great argument buddy. i think you convinced me.)

Eulogy · 08-06-2004, 11:48 AM

Fuck, I'm going to play tennis.

I hope someone comes into this thread and makes some sense.

Eulogy · 08-06-2004, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by phaedrus

yes you do!

(thanks, great argument buddy. i think you convinced me.)

I thought I was doing ok. Dammit.

(On the off-chance that you're being sincere....uh, cool.)

ammy · 08-06-2004, 11:50 AM

*unrelated tangent*

equality is a big thing for us americans.

we want everyone to be treated the same.
everyone to act the same
everyone to live the same...

we convince ourselves that everyone is the same as everyone else, exceptions are considered a bad thing, to be ignored, repressed and destroyed.

phaedrus · 08-06-2004, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eulogy

So if an 11-year-old and a 19-year-old have a consensual relationship, then it's obviously ok? since the 11-year-old showed consent?

And any sex that isn't consensual is a crime. So uh. I don't see what point you were trying to make.

have you been completely ignoring what i say? circumstances. case by case. but i see nothing wrong with the facts you've presented to me as such.

haha...."relationship"

careful, don't say sex, don't say fuck. those are bad BAD words

Eulogy · 08-06-2004, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ammy

we convince ourselves that everyone is the same as everyone else, exceptions are considered a bad thing, to be ignored, repressed and destroyed.

No...they are considered as exceptions, and they are treated as such.

They're referred to as 'exceptions' for a reason.

ammy · 08-06-2004, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eulogy

they are treated as such.

you haven't been saying that.

*devil's advocate*

phaedrus · 08-06-2004, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ammy
*unrelated tangent*

equality is a big thing for us americans.

we want everyone to be treated the same.
everyone to act the same
everyone to live the same...

we convince ourselves that everyone is the same as everyone else, exceptions are considered a bad thing, to be ignored, repressed and destroyed.

but there's NOTHING wrong with these esceptions most of the time. at the very worst, we can learn from them. at the very best, we get some of our most extraordinary, beautiful works.

i think everyone sould read Lila by Robert M. Pirsig. he talks a lot about this as it is related to mental disorders.

Eulogy · 08-06-2004, 11:55 AM

This place is so ridiculous sometimes.

Now I'm leaving.

phaedrus · 08-06-2004, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eulogy

They're referred to as 'exceptions' for a reason.

WOW. this statement eats under my skin so much.

don't you see the full spectrum?! don't you see the continuum??

this is exactly what i mean by circumstances and specifics and case by case, and morality vs. law.

phaedrus · 08-06-2004, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eulogy
This place is so ridiculous sometimes.

Now I'm leaving.

no! you can't! you mustn't! you must contiue with your argument! i need opposition.

ammy · 08-06-2004, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eulogy
This place is so ridiculous sometimes.

Now I'm leaving.

awww. you don't like the game devil's advocate?

it's a fun role to play

Eulogy · 08-06-2004, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ammy

awww. you don't like the game devil's advocate?

it's a fun role to play

I just left to play tennis!!

sheeeeeeesh!

DeadSwan · 08-06-2004, 10:56 PM

childhood is a pretty novel concept, you know. kids have been fucking for thousands of years.

keebs · 08-06-2004, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Debaser
...lack of emotional maturity to deal with the repercussions of any fallout that will occur if something goes wrong in the relationship.

you give adults too much credit.

08-06-2004, 11:39 AM	#34
Eulogy huh Posts: 62,361	You're just being a total idealist here. You need to come back to the real world for a second and think about how things actually are.

08-06-2004, 11:48 AM	#43
Eulogy huh Posts: 62,361	Fuck, I'm going to play tennis. I hope someone comes into this thread and makes some sense.

08-06-2004, 11:50 AM	#45
ammy yer mom Posts: 23,180	unrelated tangent equality is a big thing for us americans. we want everyone to be treated the same. everyone to act the same everyone to live the same... we convince ourselves that everyone is the same as everyone else, exceptions are considered a bad thing, to be ignored, repressed and destroyed.

08-06-2004, 11:55 AM	#50
Eulogy huh Posts: 62,361	This place is so ridiculous sometimes. Now I'm leaving.

08-06-2004, 10:56 PM	#55
DeadSwan Socialphobic Location: GAZA STRIP MALL Posts: 10,828	childhood is a pretty novel concept, you know. kids have been fucking for thousands of years.