[Disco King]

Originally Posted by Rairun

The issue here is that from Maynard's point of view, under the circumstances he so meticulously sets up, there is no real way for him to tell whether a fan is really consenting or not.

I'd say the ways in which one could tell if the other party is consenting is if they actively participate in the act or give verbal assent.

Originally Posted by Rairun

And the worst part is that his system works like this by design to maximize the pool of women he can pick from.

What's wrong with maximizing one's pool of partners?

Originally Posted by Rairun

He might pick a woman who has been thinking "YES, I'M GOING TO HIT THAT SHIT" from the start; he might pick a girl who has been intentionally isolated from the friends she went to the concert with, and who is afraid of passing up an opportunity to interact with someone she admires. The way he isolates them from the people who would look after them is a HUGE red flag. The way he puts them in a place with other equally excited/unsure women is another - it serves to normalize the situation, to quell any thoughts of "OK, this is uncomfortable and really fucking weird" because everyone is apparently into it. It encourages them to disregard any sense of discomfort they might feel because they are now in competition for a "prize" that they don't want to lose.

Doesn't saying that they don't want to "lose the prize" of sleeping with this guy necessarily entail that they want to sleep with him? I just don't see how we can square the idea that these people are capable of directing their own actions with the idea that they are being tricked into thinking they want something that they don't just because they see that other people want it and their friends aren't back there to sign off on it.

Originally Posted by Rairun

Nothing I'm saying is about taking their agency away. I don't think women are children. But manipulation happens, and coercion is about much more than just barely veiled threats. I'm not a woman, and I'm not stupid, and I have been manipulated/coerced before. There is no shame in being taken advantage of. And that's exactly what Maynard sets out to do with those women.

Coercion is about use of force or threat of reprisal if one doesn't do something. Yes, that reprisal doesn't necessarily have to be physical force. It could be blackmail, withholding necessities of life, etc. But I'm not sure that "the threat of losing out on sleeping with my idol" is a serious threat compelling one to sleep with their idol, because this consequence entails desire.

I think that the problem is that we're conflating motivations or reasons for why somebody may want to do something with restrictions on their ability to make a free choice. All action is guided by motivations, reasons, and incentives. If somebody makes an option appealing to me, it doesn't mean they tricked, manipulated, or coerced me into selecting that option.