Zeitgeist seems to have been the turning point for most people (and even that had an initial positive reaction from most fans). Even more so than Zwan. MSOTS had it's haters when it came out, but at the time most people saw it as an intentional side step for a genious songwriter. People still had faith that he could do stuff on par with SP1 if he really put his heart in to it. Obviously they don't anymore.
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