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Old 06-24-2014, 05:04 AM   #84
Cool As Ice Cream
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on the ignoffo tape and other old tapes:
Quote:
88xxxx 'Ignoffo'-tape aka Gish/881005 - Some comments by Sven Schlijper

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This seems to be a direct rip from one of numerous tapes Billy Corgan made back in 88-90 for his friends, or people in the music business in Chicago. There are at least a few copies of tapes like this floating around.

Verified have been:
- Gish/881005 [Ignoffo]
- Gish/Moon
- 'untitled' promo tape (without sleeve) [auctioned on eBay a while ago]
- Mike Potential's DAT which spawned the RTS-tree

Roughly these tapes follow the same pattern: a number of tracks from the electric RTS session, plus sometimes a few fillers. Tapes Corgan used were mostly 90 min (or longer) Maxell XLII-S [Japan], or brandless clear case tapes with white hand written labels affixed - in the case of the promotional tapes. Mike Potential's DAT has the full Reel Time sessions.

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GISH
Interesting to see: the RTS songs on these tapes seem to be titled 'Gish' very early on. It seems correct to date these tapes to 1989, maybe early 1990, but i'd go for 89. Thus, these songs were even then going under the banner of 'Gish' already.

On the 'Gish/Moon' tape the 'Gish' part seems to consist of:
I Am One
Bury Me
Daydream
Not Worth Asking
Honeyspider
Rhinoceros
Snap
Love
c'Mon
East
Since the b-side is titled 'Moon' and follows the tracklisting for the self-released demotape.
On 'Ignoffo' we find exactly the same songs, in identical running order.
The 1989-1990 demo promo 'Gish Basement Tape' cuts this list to only the first 5 songs.

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REEL TIME
All tapes, apart from Mike Potential's re-sequenced alphabetical one, use the same running order for most of the RTS songs. Therefore we might conclude this sequence is the desired order for these songs. On three tapes the first 10/11 songs appear in the exact same order, are from the same source and are cut exactly the same. It seems Corgan had a [master?]-tape which he kept on using, which already included this format. It might be a long shot to conclude this order is also the order in which the Reel Time Session songs were recorded. It seems rather accurate though to conlcude the band's preferred order for these songs is reflected in the running order we find on these homemade tapes. 'Cinnamon Girl' seems to have been used as a filler rather than a song reflecting the 'Gish'batch of songs, since sometimes it was present, sometimes it was left off.

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MOON
A few songs from the same session pop up on various other locations. Such as the 'Moon' demo tape and 'Gish/Moon' tape.

Honeyspider [II]
With You
Egg
Rhinoceros [organ solo version]
Bye June

Stars Fall In
Daughter
Daydream
Psychodelic

As for the running order of these songs, on various sources, this stays identical. With again the exception of Mike Potential's DAT these songs seem to be presented in the band's desired format on the 'Moon' sequence. When songs pop up on other locations than the 'release version' of 'Moon' the same sequence is used.

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B-SIDE FILLER
Corgan used to pack his tapes with music. Often cutting songs at the end of the tape-sides. 'Cinnamon Girl' is one of the assumed filler tracks, mostly present on side A. On the b-side of these tapes we find two different recordings.
1) 881005
2) 'Moon'songs and various filler tracks

@ 1):
The recording of 881005 which had been floating around for a long time now was of a very high generation. Billy's copy was of an early generation, but with some defects. For CR-05 professional cleaning up and remastering was done. Still, there are two glitches in N+E.
There is a second source for this show. It's a splice between two available audience tapes; from the same source [?], compiling the complete show. This low gen version does not have the warble/glitch Corgan's master for CR-05 has.

So basically there are two good versions of 881005 out there. One from CR-05 which sounds great, because of the professional work that has been done on the recording. And another spliced source, without the use of CR-05 and without the glitches.

On Corgan's homemade tape an incomplete version of 881005 is found.

From 881005 [BC's CR-05 tape?]:

There It Goes
She
My Eternity
Bleed
Spiteface

On 'Ignoffo'aka 'Gish/881005' another Nothing & Everything is used. This is the version which was used in the RTS tree. I believe date&location for this recording are still unknown. But we can say for sure it's NOT the 881005 version. So in 1989, when compiling these homemade tapes Corgan left Nothing & Everything off the tapes and replaced it with another version. However, on CR-05 he did use his own, defective, version of the song.


@ 2):
Various filler tracks were used by BC.

On 'Ignoffo'aka 'Gish/881005' we find:
- Jennifer Ever [acoustic/click track version] > also used on the RTS tree
- Under Your Spell [1988 studio demo] > also found on Mashed Potatoes
- There It Goes [1988 studio demo] > also found on Mashed Potatoes. The Ignoffo version is cut as per tape end, on MP it's the full song
- Cinnamon Girl [Reel Time session] > present on the RTS tree
- Time Has Come Today [881120, Last Exit, Chicago, IL] > audience recording
- My Dahlia [1989 studio demo] > also found on Mashed Potatoes, NOT the Light Into Dark version

On 'Gish/Moon' we find:
- Cinnamon Girl [RTS]
- I Fall [very early demo]
- Times Has Come Today [881120]

I Fall is being distributed now as a demo from 1988. This could very well be the case. However, I clearly remember Dave Asselin's assertion Corgan has told him James and he recorded I Fall in late 1987 in his father's studio, using a drummachine. Corgan produced this from the top of his head. Whatever you might think of this, still, Asselin got I Fall the day before we went to the listening party for MACHINA where Corgan gave him 880810 Avalon, with I Fall [live]. They discussed the song then and that's where Corgan came up with the date of 1987. The song was listed in Asselin's bootlist as xx.xx.87. Maybe there is a possibility someone can shed some light on this issue. Personally I tink a recording in 1987 isn't that far off. The lone known source for this song is a handwritten homemade Corgan tape entitled 'Gish/Moon', to be dated 1989.

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25 TRACKS O'PUMPKINS AKA PSYCHO VIDEO
Some filler tracks from the Ignoffo-torrent were taken from this 'infamous' video of various live performances around 88-89. Full audio of this video has been spread to some extent, the video itself has yet to spread into wider circulation, I believe.

From this video tape the following audio is currently in wide circulation:
- My Dahlia [reahearsel] > found on Ignoffo torrent
- The Crystal Ship [The Doors cover] > found on Ignoffo torrent
- She [live] > unknown location&date, found on the 3 Songs O'Rarities leak
- My Eternity [live 88119, PCA] > found on the 3 Songs O'Rarities leak

Apprently Corgan made this video tape for an early fan/girlfriend. The full tracklisting for this video includes:

01 Venus in Furs
02 Rhinoceros
03 East
04 I Am One
05 My Dahlia [rehearsel]
06 She
07 I'm Free [The Who cover]
08 Oui Henri [cut]
09 Nothing & Everything
10 My Eternity [PCA]
11 The Crystal Ship [The Doors cover]
12 Sun
13 Spiteface
14 I Am My End
15 Rhinoceros
16 Ball & Chain [James Iha composition?!]
17 Bury Me
18 Try ot Try
19 Salt
20 Lie I Lie
21 Razor
22 Love
23 C'Mon [fade-out]
24 a very short soundcheck snippet
25 Jennifer Ever

tracks 14~23 are from 891031, Metro, Chicago, IL [14-18 Set 1/19-23 Set 2]

At the after show party @ Metro after the last performance, this video was shown, amongst others on a big screen onstage. Both audio and video quality are quite bad. Still, we'd you expect from a homedubbed video from 1989?

Both video and full audio have still to surface on greater scale.

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OTHER NON-RTS SONGS
The 'Ignoffo' tape also includes three songs not from RTS, or 25 O'Pumpkins video.

This Jennifer Ever seems to be exclusive to the 'Ignoffo' tape. Source is identical to the one used in the RTS tree; the 'Ignoffo' tape that is.

Both Under Your Spell and There It Goes are studio demo's. These versions did appear on Mashed Potatoes. Datewise I'd conclude we are looking for a session in 1988. Possibly Corgan Sr.'s home recording studio. SPFC.org lists a session which might have included a drummachine in 1988.

However Under Your Spell clearly uses a live drummer. I Fall and There It Goes share some similar sounds and both use a drummachine. So now we have Corgan's claim to 1987 for I Fall and There It Goes studio w/ drummachine [?], plus Under Your Spell with live drumming. Not from the same session, this might make Under Your Spell a demorecording from around mid-88 with Jimmy in the band and There It Goes from early-88. Possibly recorded with I Fall, which would not match up to Corgan's assertion of the date of 1987. Some confusion here...

 
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