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Old 06-30-2018, 03:22 PM   #85
Rairun
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Originally Posted by Disco King View Post
I'd say the ways in which one could tell if the other party is consenting is if they actively participate in the act or give verbal assent.
It's not anywhere as clear cut as that. Maybe it has to be to actually prosecute someone, but the bar to call someone a creep needs to be much, much lower, imho.

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What's wrong with maximizing one's pool of partners?
Why are you taking that sentence in isolation? It's a problem if you are doing that by exploiting people's vulnerabilities with no regard for them.



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Doesn't saying that they don't want to "lose the prize" of sleeping with this guy necessarily entail that they want to sleep with him? I just don't see how we can square the idea that these people are capable of directing their own actions with the idea that they are being tricked into thinking they want something that they don't just because they see that other people want it and their friends aren't back there to sign off on it.
No, it doesn't. I can't believe I actually have to explain the concept of peer pressure here. I also can't believe I have to explain that ultimatums often present people with a false dichotomy that doesn't actually represent what they want ("you either take this NOW, on my terms, or leave it"). Sometimes that's just life, but Maynard was very deliberate about what he was doing, and the intended effect was to confuse and coerce. It was predatory, no way around it, and it's very weird to have to spell this out here.

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Coercion is about use of force or threat of reprisal if one doesn't do something. Yes, that reprisal doesn't necessarily have to be physical force. It could be blackmail, withholding necessities of life, etc. But I'm not sure that "the threat of losing out on sleeping with my idol" is a serious threat compelling one to sleep with their idol, because this consequence entails desire.

I think that the problem is that we're conflating motivations or reasons for why somebody may want to do something with restrictions on their ability to make a free choice. All action is guided by motivations, reasons, and incentives. If somebody makes an option appealing to me, it doesn't mean they tricked, manipulated, or coerced me into selecting that option.
There is such a thing as preying on confusion, high emotions, etc. It's really very bizarre to me that fuzzy of all people can see this, but you guys cannot.

 
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