Sometimes I wonder how long I can hold out before becoming a vegan...
 

I mean...I've gone through all the philosophical and practical arguments in my head, and they almost always point to veganism. Really, the only excuse I have for not doing it is, "But I like meat!"

Every time I talk to one of my vegan friends, or read anything relating to animal rights at all, I always come away from it feeling like an irresponsible shit. Not because they try to make me feel guilty - they're not that sort. But just because I feel like I should be doing it and I'm not...and I really have no good reason why I'm not.

But then I think about how much never having a nice steak, or a turkey dinner, or good cheese again for the rest of my life would suck, and I always cave.

Sigh. I'm fucking weak.

No matter what bullshit they try to tell you, being a vegan is not healthy.

Vegetarianism is ok. I think it's kinda dumb, and I wouldn't even be one, but it's not nearly as unhealthy as veganism.

Do your friends' skin have a yellow tint?

No.

You are right to not become a fucking crazy vegan. Ugh.

Determinism, you need to read up on lots of science and darwin ect ect to believe it, but its pretty infallible........


You'll get to a point where you will feel everyone includung yourself is just a big bag of atoms and feelings are totally synthetic.


Assuming it doesnt make you top yourself :erm you should feel ok about eating animals

Or be a happy vegan :)

Probably 'cause it is.

Yes there are. :p "Cuz a bunch of my atoms are stuck together this way instead of that way" isn't an argument for anything. You can't derive an "ought" from an "is".

There's many years of evolution affecting the human body that seems to point towards meat being a good thing to ingest.

Actually, the healthiest people I know are vegans. Some of my vegan friends are a little unhealthy, but I think that's primarily because they have other problems, like they're anorexic or not very physically active. But I'd say probably six or seven of the ten strongest, most robust, healthiest people I know are vegans. They're also hardcore martial artists, so that probably has something to do with it too... Or else they grew up vegan and so they know all the right stuff about vitamins you need to take and where to get enough protein and whatnot.

Uh, so I guess my conclusions should be...what you eat has a whole lot less impact on your health than how often you get off your ass. :p

Determinism - in addition to being incredibly depressing - isn't infallible. :p And even if it were true, it's certainly not a viable philosophy by which to live your life, because to do so is fucking impossible.

My little brother actually made a serious go of it for a couple of weeks and almost went crazy. Which was kinda funny to watch, but I wouldn't wanna live there. Heh.

Given. And I'm not arguing that human biology isn't predisposed to being omnivorous, or that everybody should be vegan or anything. But that doesn't necessarily mean that eating meat is the right choice for me personally.

I just cant comprehend a way its fallible, if you know it tell me :( :erm

The way i see it, if nothing matters, then i might as well just be happy and ignorant of that fact :)






:(

*laughs* I don't know why I'm arguing. I should be letting people give convince me that it's okay for me not to be vegan...That's the whole point, since I can't seem to convince myself. Meh. I'm dumb.

Give us one good reason to be a vegan apart from health and, awww cute little lamb.


THERE! CURED!

If it makes you feel guilty, you could always give in and stop eating them. Guilt is what stops me from murdering people, its not all bad.

Edit: oh and the law.....

You should think yourself up a hot piece of pussy!

Man isn't above nature. Man's a part of nature. All I'm saying is...that doesn't tell you anything. It's just a statement of fact. You can't draw any ethical or normative conclusions from it.

It's like me saying, "What should I do today?" and someone saying, "Well. You're in a house. There's a chair over there." True. So what? There's lots of ways I can interpret that information as far as helping me make a decisions, but it still doesn't tell me what I should do today.

yep, determinism is pretty much infallable. That is, is of course coming from someone whos' feet are entrenched in the sewers. If by chance one day I fall in through a whole in the ground and wind up in shrai ra la de da than my veiwpoint will change. Its all about perspective.

Aknowledging the fact that one is constantly eating dead animal parts and drinking cow fluids remains disturbing. Regardless.

I don't think so. I relish the fact that my thick juicy steak was once something that walked and ate and shat.

*laughs* Well see that's the thing. I don't feel bad about it. To be perfectly honest, emotionally speaking, I actually kinda get off on the idea of being a predator (in a passive, somebody else kills it and I buy it at the grocery store sort of way.) :p

It's just that...like, essentially...the same reasons that it would be wrong for me to - as someone said - kill people, or keep people as slaves, or use people as means to ends, make it wrong for me to do the same things to animals. Because, as Brendan said, man isn't above nature. ;)

I mean, I guess if I could come up with some reason to believe that humans are fundamentally different from animals in a relevant way... But I haven't been able to think of one so far.

The whole guilt mechanic in society is to benefit you, and the human race, so its illogical to apply it to animals really.

In casse you didn't notice, animals eat other animals too!:eek:

It's called the food chain. You're at the top of it. Deal with it.

Heh. It's not really that I feel guilty, but that I feel...*bites lip*...irresponsible? It makes me feel like a hypocrite.

For like, believing humans have certain rights, but not believing that animals have some of those same rights, even though I don't have a good reason for differentiating. It makes me feel like there's something screwy in my ethical system somewhere.

You already know my determinist stance :( sooo

Imo the system of ethics we have right now is a biological/social evolution. You dont kill other people, on the understanding they dont kill you ect. You dont need to think about this in regards to animals, so you dont have to apply your system of ethics to them.

Should we now let chickens vote? Or give driver's licenses to horses?

You're starting to sound like one of those PETA whackos that think animals have as many, if not more, rights than people.

There are NO rights in the animal kingdom. "Rights" are a manmade convention.

Do you think for one second if an animal could eat you that it would first consider your rights? Pssshhh.

Yeah, I think it's kinda cool. :) I mean, occasionally I'll have a moment where I'm like, "Wow. I'm ingesting something's muscles/the reproductive organs of a plant/whatever. That's so...weird." But only in the same way that I'll occasionally have moments where I'm like, "Wow. I'm wearing shoes/communicating with people via bunches of electrons/breathing oxygen...that's so weird." :p I think the idea that meat comes from animals is neet.

Meh. I think this whole thing is probably so much less about me feeling bad about eating baby cows or whatever, and so much more about some self-serving need to feel like my value system is logical and coherent. :rolleyes:

Bren's right. I have been studying too much philosophy. I should just "go down to the pub and have a pint". And maybe some cheese.