Does anybody [else] want to have a good faith conversation about any forthcoming political events of some significance?

We could discuss things such as realistic theories, i.e. the idea of Nikki Haley running in 2024 (if Biden were to win) as a sort of return to tradition move from the GOP after their seeing that alt-right populism only promises single term presidencies with chronically low approval ratings and limited policy achievements.

I think there is a good chance this happens. I think Larry Hogan will run as well.

Haley has positioned herself well for sure. She's a redneck whisperer and would help the remnants of the GOP to distance themselves from some of the nastier, public facing racist policies enacted under Trump by leaning into her ethnicity without alienating pragmatic racist votes that she'll need in a general. She's traditional TEA-stained GOP enough to pull back the rare and shy, few remaining true conservatives. And, her time at the UN provides distance and cover from the more salacious palace gossip while still affirming her as a good soldier for the party. All that, and she's disingenuous enough to morph into whatever the moment calls for.

She'll have to walk the tightrope between distancing herself from Trump in the face of continued revelations and not disavowing or god forbid criticizing and thus drawing his ire via twitter. Some portion of his base will remain dug in and bewilderedly looking for guidance. Not exactly revelatory, but I expect a lot of "I'm not here to talk about the past, I'm here to talk about the future..." out of her and any other Trumpworld survivors. I think by her own design, she stayed tucked away at the UN and away from most of the idiocy in the oval.

She's a contender for sure- but as it goes, she'll have to get a rose from a billionaire benefactor to get anywhere in what will surely be a clownshow primary.

Voting for Biden is supporting him, you goof. I’m not voting for Trump, I couldn’t live with myself if I did that. Again I am not certain my theory is right. The only thing I’m certain about is that Biden won’t fix the problems that plague America and the world. None of you have provided any evidence that suggests he will even begin to do so, either. Better than Trump isn’t good enough.

I’m the only person in this entire thread who has supported my claims with links, so this is an odd take. Re: your electoral college question, Can you really not figure out why AOC (assuming she’s the nominee) would win when she’s getting all the people like me who refuse to support neoliberals to actually vote for the Democratic ticket?

Yeah I thought Biden had it for awhile but the polls lately haven’t been encouraging. I’m pretty sure Trump is winning again. And RBG will blame it on Bernie again.

Federal

Fucking

Judges

You clearly do not belong to a class of people that can be affected by their rulings. I do. Pregnant women do. Trans people do.

So just stop.

Yeah but he is the only one with links!!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Eulogy again.

You recently linked to an article discussing Bernie's performance with young voters in a primary contest that he lost and it directly states that "also helping Biden was the fact that young people just aren’t turning out in the kind of numbers Sanders needed to be competitive in the delegate count." The subheading of the article is literally, "But young people aren’t turning out in enough numbers to turn the tide for Sanders."

It does not support your argument that Trump winning in 2020 will increase the likelihood of President Ocasio-Cortez in 2024. Statistics would suggest that the population of the United States is aging and you do not appear to have accounted for this at all, which is another reason why I keep suggesting that your claims lack support. They do and your own "evidence" contradicts you.

What else you got?

This article simply provides quotes from a single individual associated with the alt-right suggesting that incompetence has hamstrung the MAGA movement and also that Trump brought America too close to war with Iran for his tastes. He further adds that "[his] principles were never voting for the supposed 'the lesser [of] two evils,'" which is apparently an attitude Squish Squash has in common with a white supremacist.

It provides no support for Squish Squash's claim that Trump winning in 2020 will pave the way for Ocasio-Cortez in 2024.

This article discusses the removal by the DNC of a policy relating to ending subsidies for companies associated with fossil fuels, though it does point out that Biden maintains this policy himself.

It provides no support whatsoever for Squish Squash's claim that Trump winning in 2020 will assist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in any way where it regards the 2024 elections.

Anyone who thinks we will have a country in 2024 If Herr Trump get re-elected is a moron

This is an opinion piece written by a senior advisor and speechwriter to Bernie Sanders. It speculates that Biden will not follow through with much of the progressive policy that has been promised, pointing to the deficit left by tax cuts on top of the pandemic crisis and assurances made by Biden to Wall Street donors. It closes by suggesting that, "if Democrats win this election and 2020 is a repeat of 2009, then 2024 is going to be a repeat of 2016, only with a much smarter version of Trump winning the presidency."

In other words, Squish Squash has taken an opinion piece written by a Sanders employee and simply adopted its conclusion. It does not provide support for the contention that Trump winning in 2020 will help AOC win in 2024.

Did I miss any other bullshit articles that in no way support what Squish Squash is claiming about 2024 or was that it?

All you guys have is ad hominems and Elvis Presley is alive in Chile, therefore Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez will become Queen of England in everywhere for all time.

https://www.theweek.co.uk/tall-tales...iving-in-chile

My gut tells me if Trump wins, we're obviously totally fucked as a country in the next 4 years. If Biden wins, the right would be triggered and antagonized to spawn someone even worse than Trump because they'll have a semblance of competence (Cotton, Carlson) and then we'd be totally fucked then too. Honestly, if you can, its best to just gtfo this shithole country asap before its too late. I know thats not possible for many (most) probably me included.

I know I'm jaded and getting old but I legit think its DELUSIONAL of anyone who thinks Sanders would win or AOC is going to win. Do yall not see how conservative of a country we live in? Americans by and large do not believe in spending taxpayer dollars to help the working class in any tangible way. Maybe people live in that echo chamber bubble. Idk.

Yes I'm in a swing state, I'll stand in line for hours to vote for Biden even if I just think its delaying the inevitable.

gezellig

i was thinking more like kankerlijers but yes agreed

lekker biertje drinken
heerlijk toch

same thing

teringhoere!

Finally someone agrees with me about what will happen if Biden wins. I’m not crazy, I promise. Well, I am crazy, but not about politics.

I think I already said the 2024 theory is speculation (and tbh me being hopeful) on my part. Why am I the only person who has to provide links?

Nobody else has had to grasp that hard. Just give up, already. It's pathetic.

Wow, Squish. You sure are good at only seeing what you want to see.

v blessed tommy has dual Us/Panamanian citizenship because going to Panama is always an option for when it's time to emigrate from this shit-hole

felling blesed :banoonoo:

Not on policy goals we aren't. Like I already said, you aren't even further left than half the people who post in this community. If being progressive to you means being an intransigent child who has no understanding of utilitarianism and the greater good, then I guess I concede you are more left wing than any of us. If it means our policy goals and attachment to the most efficacious way to get close to them, then you are far closer to fuzzyroes than... basically all of us.

I am also cautiously hopeful. Trump is going into this election with the biggest disadvantage of any incumbent in history since the advent of modern polling. I don't really care for the punditry and prognostication anymore... as people who think like this are basically magical thinkers and have been wrong so many times in the past... all I care about are the numbers, and the numbers show Trump as a contender, but one in a historically difficult position. The idea that Trump is ironclad and is a shoe-in and that we "haven't learned the lessons of 2016," is straight-up magical thinking. It's applying a non-scientific and emotionally driven lens to the election. People don't want to be embarassed again after the media shoved the Hillary has a 99% chance of winning narrative down everyone's throats and they didn't listen to Nate Silver who said Trump had a very real path to victory etc etc., but that's more about ego than what is actually happening.

Seriously. I don't love the Democratic establishment and I don't love centrism, but the idea that shit was "rigged" against Sanders, which elicits an idea of blatantly faking votes, is patently false. The Democrats did move against Sanders and pull some shitty moves on him in 2016, but at the end of the day they ironically did it unnecessarily. Sanders received THREE MILLION less votes. In 2020, Sanders performed far more poorly, receiving NINE MILLION less votes than Biden, and losing a bunch of states Sanders carried four years ago.

Politico – 2016 vs. 2020 State By State

Wikipedia – Results of 2020 Democratic Primary

Wikipedia – Results of the 2016 Democratic Primary

So your hunch, which you aped from facebook meme groups and Sanders staffers, is worth putting millions of people's lives and rights in jeopardy, losing the judiciary for 40 years, and the possible collapse of the US as a democracy. Cool, you seem smart and empathetic. The morally correct path is to keep the greater evil out and reduce suffering you dumb dick. Your punditry is 100% bullshit you've clearly just taken from other people.

People like you are a small minority who amplify yourselves on the internet. You have no fucking clue how to speak to people who don't think and talk exactly like yourself. You don't have the keys to the kingdom, and a lot of your dumbass facebook buds will click like on a Bernie Sanders group but don't fucking show up to vote.

I never blamed it on Bernie, but cool lie. Sanders staying in so long was only one small factor in a perfect storm of factors that let Trump stumble into the presidency in 2016. The idea you have that it can be magically boiled down to one factor (establishment candidates can't win) is beyond stupid and without any evidence. In 2018, Democrats swept across the spectrum. Progressives did exceedingly well. Moderates did exceedingly well. Blue dogs did exceedingly well. You just don't understand the political climate at all, which is why you don't understand why people gravitated to Biden and believe this outright falsehood that the Democrats "rigged" the primary against Sanders even though he received SIX MILLION less votes this cycle than in 2016.


ninsp is the second worst poster on this board right now, and even he knows Trump is an existential threat to the US.

I don't think it's beyond the realm of imagination that someone like Sanders could win the presidency if everything lined up perfectly for them. But we've only ever had one quasi-socialist and it certainly does not seem like the mood of the country right now to elect one. What we saw in 2020 vs. 2016 was people reach out for a safer choice. Biden was sort of the shortest distance everyone in the tent had to travel to meet at one point, and that is why he won. People want Trump out, and that is the lead animus of the Democratic party right now.

squish squash, he is literally saying the opposite of you

because your position is idiotic and your links are nonsense and everyone thinks you are being really immature and obnoxious. your speculation is not worth people's lives. grow up you fucking baby

One of my queer friends in the DC area moved to Iceland a month ago. She was lucky to have dual citizenship in the UK, which made it easier for her to leave this country.

My sister is moving to Vancouver at the end of the week. She was lucky to have found a job and to get help with work permit from her employer.

take me with you tommy

I think it's more likely for people to do the whole "whatever, man, I'm not going to vote/I'm going to vote third party" thing when they think of politics as something that happens every four years, with elections being their only chance to effect change. If when the election rolls around, none of your choices are perfect moral paragons who are going to fix everything for you and save the world, why bother?

But when you're politically involved and understand that political change is an ongoing effort participated in at all levels by activists, interest groups, coalitions, etc., then you don't expect the president to "fix everything" and align perfectly with your political goals. You just pick the candidate that's going to be less inconvenient to the political activities you and others like you are already undertaking. Does anyone in Squish Squash's Facebook groups think that grassroots leftist activists have had an easier, rather than a harder time, pursuing their agenda under an administration's as hostile as Trump's? That, even if no regime has ever been especially favourable to them, that they haven't seen larger setbacks and obstacles under Trump?

No president any time soon is going to give you all the things you deserve without you fighting for them. Therefore, pick the weaker enemy that is going to be easier to win concessions from. Progress in labour rights, environmental regulations, LGBT rights, civil rights, have mostly been pushed for by people from below until administrations found it untenable not to give in, not driven top-down. You're not going to have single-payer health care in the 2020-2024 term, or the 2024-2028 term. But if you keep organizing, protesting, and rioting, just like with other rights, you'll have them eventually. In the meantime, pick candidates that will be easier to overcome. That candidate is not Trump. Another four years of Trump is only going to impede and roll back progress for possibly decades more than the next worst candidate.

how's ur spanish?

i got a ? would anyone tell tara reade (or any woman who simply refuses to vote for a sexual predator ) to quit belly-achin' and pick the less evil of the men who both represent the person who harmed her? what would you say to women for whom it would be traumatic to vote for either one? they get a pass from you or what? oh arbiters of voting

not as strong as it used to be but Phoenix being my second home since '94 I can hang in there pretty well.