Yeah I do take them - we attend as a family. They feel differently about it from week to week...it's work for me, now.

I only compared myself to African slaves in the respect that many of them were theists despite having plenty of reason not to be, which is similar to me. We don't have the same reasons or the same amount of suffering or anything.

I can't give an example like that. African slaves, suffering and low self esteem don't make it possible God exists. Logic makes it possible. Either the universe was created deliberately or it wasn't.

Oh no, I was talking about The Problem of Evil

I think teaching kids to accept that deities, demons, angels, ghosts, etc exist is boarder line child abuse. It's psychological and intellectual indoctrination.

Kids can be taught about community, fellowship, etc without the involvement of gods and devils.

I agree with at least one thing in this thread, and that's that Richard Dawkins is a total curmudgeonly dick who has declared himself an expert on everything from biology to morality to politics.

In ethics I remember covering a child's right to an open future, and that definitely affects my parenting.

It becomes problematic because all sorts of non-verified beliefs are encouraged in children - some are religious, like believing in God. Some are political, like that the poor deserve their poverty. Some are just a question of the values a family holds, like that it is more important to be diligent than to be creative, or vice versa.

On top of that, there's the conundrum where mastery of any skill takes approximately 10,000 hours of practice, and to clock those up before a child reaches, say, 18 - they have to start pretty young, say, 3. But to encourage a child to spend more hours doing one activity rather than another is deciding for them which skills they will have later in life.

Ultimately, being a parent requires you to choose on behalf of your child which skills, values, and beliefs they will carry with them into adulthood.

I do require that my children attend church. But I also encourage them to ask questions if there are things that confuse them, and I make it clear that whatever their beliefs, it is a positive thing to find ways to communicate them to others, to be respectful of others beliefs, and to put time and consideration into what they believe.

Both of my kids are fairly atheistic - their everyday lives don't support or involve the notion of a creator or supernatural creative force, so it doesn't seem like a realistic prospect for either of them. But I think they enjoy the story of Christianity all the same. And I'm happy for them, that they'll know many of the details in the Bible and have an understanding of human history because we regularly consider what a group of people who lived a couple of thousand years ago, said and did.

God is a place you will wait for the rest of your liiiife.

You must be getting ready to have kids, duo...your databases on grooming and avoiding arrest have to be near complete now. The time is nearly right...?

http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/201...cs-2012-101182

Here's an issue where a child's right to an open future comes up...

My local priest hooked me up.

When my nephew was four I told him he had to chew his grapes first so he didn't choke. He responded, "It's okay, Uncle Evan. If I choke Jesus will come and save me."

It broke my fucking heart.

Nothing else to do in Pittsburgh I guess :(

There's hope yet. I had a younger cousin who would always ask me if I believed in God, and I'd say no and he tried to reassure me that I would one day. I must've been like 16, 17, 18 and he's like 6 years younger than me. Now he sees through the bull shit so

Maybe his parents didn't do a good enough job of indoctrinating him.

Things_that_didnt_happen.txt

well, yeah, my heart didn't literally break. it was just a figure of speech.

Most people who are 'indoctrinated' these days reject their parents' religion anyway. I did for a long time, I was the most hxc angry atheist from age 14 til whenever I calmed down and my prefrontal cortex developed a little more. I still take issue with aspects of the type of Christianity I was raised with, but while some parts of my childhood were less than healthy, going to church and being taught Bible verses certainly wasn't one. I think if anything, raising kids without religion gives them fewer options - they are much less likely to be anything but an atheist in adulthood. And even in a secular sense, being utterly ignorant of theology isn't doing all of you any favors.

I have 17 years of catholic education behind me. Including mandatory theology classes in college. No one is missing out on as much as you're implying

Yeah they are

No, they're not. Relevant in a historical context but that's it. All knowledge is good but meh.

When did you become a believing christian, btw?

kids should learn about religions, including reading the founding texts where they exist

doesn't follow from that that they need to be raised to believe that at least one of them is empirically valid

Robble

Yeah I mean don't teach your kid to believe in God just to make them cultured. It's just a plus

Eulogy confuses Catholicism with all of Christianity and does one of those invalid universal generalisation from his existential one, inferring that because he gained nothing from a Catholic upbringing, nobody could gain anything much from a Christian upbringing. Even though a Protestant education is usually very different from a Catholic one.

That's not at all true.

What a lawyer.

I just think it's weird you call yourself a Christian but don't believe Jesus was divine or really anything else. You just like being around people. Which is fine. Just doesn't make you a Christian in my opinion.

What do you mean by divine, though?

I don't care enough

My belief system is a healthy mix of Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard, which I am force feeding my children in the hopes that they will also become wealthy con men and/or science fiction authors.

I guess therein lies the difference between Catholicism and Protestantism...