What happens next?
 

I've been thinking about this extensively for the last two months, but even further back than that. Fair warning, this is going to be long and also might trigger anxiety.

For a long time, I've acknowledged the apparently obvious truth that complexity arises from nothingness based on simple laws of probability and molecular stability, given enough time. I don't mean for this to be a religion or spirituality bashing thread because I honestly wish there were a god, or at the very least a soul. Not that I know for sure that there isn't, but the lack of even a shred of evidence is troubling.

Recently, I started reading a book called "The Believing Brain", and the basic point of it is that human beings, as a species, inherently or through conditioning make decisions based on belief and then subsequently look for evidence to support the belief, meanwhile convincing ourselves that the evidence came first and the belief came second.

Again, not to get political, but this explains the vast majority of stupidity on planet earth, whether we're talking about belief in psychics, ghosts, gods, objectively false prejudices/political dispositions, lotto tickets, simple superstition... the list goes on. And some might be surprised to hear that this can apply to the alleged "unbiased", rationally trained mind as well:

Think about the antiquated belief in "vitalism", or the idea that living beings possess an objective "life force" which separates them from inanimate objects. When the synthesis of urea was first carried out, from putatively "inorganic" salts, even reputed scientists claimed that the sample must have been contaminated by the "life force" of the scientist who carried out the synthesis - and we're talking juggernauts in the field, not some fringe whack jobs. Then there are the previously held notions of the world being flat, of the world being the center of the solar system... I'll never forget going to the Creation Museum in Kentucky, and upon watching the planetarium video, hearing gasps around the theater as people were shocked to discover that the earth wasn't the center of the universe.

In any case, my point is that the more we learn, the more it seems the universe is more or less "indifferent" to living beings. We now are quite sure there's nothing remarkable about life on earth. While water does seem to be the most conducive compound to allowing life to evolve over billions of years based on the unusual characteristic of having a lower density in the solid state than in the liquid state and a high specific heat to limit large environmental temperature fluctuations, there's nothing "magical" about water, and it only increases the probability of complexity arising from structure by creating a relatively stable platform that's resistant to environmental disturbances over the extremely long amount of time required for probability to do its work.

All of this is to say that, in short, we're here. We're here for an amount of time which might be considered a fraction of a fraction of a blink of an eye with respect to the overall timescale of the universe. And then what?

We've created these, and sorry if this is offensive to anyone but I honestly feel like we're all in the same boat here, fairy tales about heaven and the afterlife and reincarnation and ghosts lingering after death, but there's no reason to believe any of these things have any validity aside from a way to comfort ourselves when faced with the sheer existential terror that, if none of these things exist, we're done existing in what might as well be a few seconds. And I really feel like that's why the vast majority of people on earth are religious, or at the very least spiritual, because the alternative and the implications are so fucking horrifying, and there's absolutely no escape. Try for a moment to adequately picture the cognitive dissonance going on right there and you'll see why the ultra-religious and ultra-conservative fight to protect their worldviews which such vehemence.

The hardest part of this for me is that once we're gone, we'll never be able to see the people we love ever again for the rest of eternity. It's not the notion of ceasing to exist that I'm afraid of, it's the thought of certain connections and relationships disappearing forever.

Now for the past 7-8 years or so, I've explored some metaphysical/Eastern philosophies on existence, the self, and the universe, and while it seems to make sense that there's essentially no boundary between the self and the universe, which I suppose would mean that the self is eternal and therefore might be thought of as a soul or some retention of identity, even if that identity is not distinct from the rest of the entirety of the universe, a leap of faith is required with respect to this idea which, tying back to the original point about our willingness to believe in just about anything, makes me think it's all just another bullshit fairy tale. If there is a happy solution to this dilemma, I imagine it's related to some form of Eastern philosophy.

I went to Catholic school for 10 years until high school, and honestly that whole worldview hasn't sat well with me since I was old enough to think critivally. Everyone gets to live a happy afterlife with everyone forever unless you do something bad? And the degree of badness which prevents you from getting to heaven varies depending on which sect of your chosen Abrahamic religion you conform to? And the Eastern stuff isn't exempt here either in the sunshine and roses department, even if it is slightly more rational. So our only real options for salvation from the eternal void are, apparently, be good on earth and you get to live in bliss forever, or accept that all things are transitory and embrace whatever comes next?


tl;dr - Death is not a transition, it is the end.



I also should note that I've had some anxiety and panic issues resurfacing over the last two months, and while I used to be comfortable as recently as last year with the Ken Wilber-type explanation for the soul, now it seems false. Even as recently as two months ago, I was comfortable with the fact that death is something everyone experiences and therefore isn't worth getting worked up about. The notion that death is terrifying may be catastrophic thinking related to panic and anxiety, the "what-if" thought that goes as follows: "what if everyone I know and love will one day be separated from me forever?". It used to be simple things which could plainly be proven false: "What if I'm dying?". The human body, while finite, is incredibly resilient. Maybe this new line of thinking is just my psyche carving out an avenue for the catastrophic "what-if" thoughts to come back in. But I digress, if medication, structured living and exercise are the solution, that only seems to strengthen the idea that we're nothing more than our brains. Unless betterment of the self is some sort of worthy metaphysical goal. I feel like this "existential terror" wouldn't be possible if I had accepted a simple religious worldview and stopped asking questions, because it requires a somewhat thorough understanding of abstract scientific concepts, but sadly I can do no such thing.







Can anybody recommend some philosophical reading which might address this dilemma? I googled "existential terror", because that is the most adequate phrase I can think of to describe what I feel, and sure enough, it's a thing. Which is somewhat comforting in that maybe someone else has some answers.

I honestly don't know what texts to recommend - you can apply the same reasoning to Tao Te Ching and won't have a paragraph left that's even slightly comforting.

If you want to add to your anxiety, you could read Sartre or E.M. Cioran.
And then just wait until you can enjoy nihilism without a sense of terror.

The only "comforting thought" I can come up with right now is that while it can be frightening that death will separate your loved ones from you: once you're dead yourself you won't mind, you won't be able to miss anyone or anything.

deal with it

tl: dr

(what hell, pakula?)

you're thinking too much about "life". it's not a special thing and there is nothing particularly special about any of us despite what our mothers may say.

ya know i had always heard about bill hicks growing up because my father liked him but i never paid much attention until recently because tim likes him, too. i think he is the most sane person ever in saying life is just a just a ride. a joke, really.

but make it a fun ride. a fun and worthwhile ride.

can't read this site anymore

we all die alone. ((((hug)))) let go of your ego and see nothing matters and never will.

the spice extends life.

so essentially the only way to properly read a thread around here anymore is to press Quote and read singular posts one at a time. bravo

whoops too long
look out twitter, this is the next best thing

killtrocity;

I haven no texts to recommend. But in regards to what you've laid out here, I do think the only answer is embracing that the nothingness doesn't matter. It is terrifying. However, recently I've been thinking of my life and what exactly would be on my mind if I knew I was dying in the next few minutes, or if I had a split second in eternity to think about anything. And I know it would be my traumas, my unresolved feelings, and things I've done that are terrible. Basically the people I've abused and the people that have abused me (even if, to be clear, there is a big gap in these things).

I think the only solace I get in the moment of death, is that it is eternity to us just as eternity doesn't exist with us in external reality. If we are only here for a fraction of a second, then that second might as well be forever. Does that make sense? We only feel while we're alive, so it's not as if eternity goes on without us in our minds, we ARE eternal since we will not be aware of not existing.

I don't know if I'm explaining myself well here. Basically, I think if things are resolved in our lives than our eternity will be peaceful, and if they are not it will not be. Good incentive to do good in life I suppose, but also unfair in so many ways.

This is probably some justification to myself but I can't think of any other way to find any peace at all from existential terror.

Who woulda thunk the end of the board comes in the fashion of sort of out of control malware bot that Pak man installed 10 years ago destroying the text formatting of the site.

What are you idiots talking about

use a different browser or something

sounds like you got the devil in you

or you need a different browser

No thanks I don't want my computer to get Russian internet super aids.

I'm not the guy who can't even read the site

I only had to change the forum interface - all good.

First you have to realize you aren't alive. Only then will you understand "death."

fix it!!!!!!!!!!

The problem with philosophy (especially that which is rooted in religious tradition) is that it hasn't kept up with the rapid pace of scientific understanding over the past 100+ years.

IMO there are few purely philosophical options to turn to if you want something that deals with bothe the indifferent nature of the universe AND the condition of the mind, as it is currently understood by science.

I get more in terms of affirmation of my view of the universe reading people like Carl Sagan, Neil Degrass Tyson, etc. I think for many people that come to atheism/skepticism the most difficult part can often be a sense of loss or pointlessness that is experienced when one lets go of the common dogma of traditional religion.

I just want to party, but maintain a good work ethic. but I'm poor so I don't really know what I'm talking about

IF YOU KNOW WHO SNOOKIE IS BU TNOT KARL SAGAN UOURE WHATS WRONG WITH THE UNIVERISE!

like if u agree!

Sorry for posting this shit, I'd like to rectify it:


http://www.truthcontest.com/entries/...iversal-truth/

you should read the denial of the death by the way
i mean it didn't help with my constant terror at the thought of complete non-existence but still. maybe it'll help other people who aren't as neurotic as me come to grips with it. and its a real good book. pulitzer prize and shit

that site is sorta :erm: but this is kinda what i was trying to say:

You are immortal; it is impossible to not be, because it is impossible to be conscious of being unconscious.

Erm. Your family dumps your ashes in the ocean. So ten years later it's still impossible to not be because there's nothing left of you that could be conscious of anything?

That would be like saying a table doesn't really exist because it doesn't know it.

Or are you saying you are immortal to your own and soley your own consciousness?
If so, "immortal" seems like the wrong word for it.

I wouldn't call it immortality.

But if you are not aware of not existing, the fact that you do not exist (when death happens and after) does not exist in a practical sense. Are you dead? Yes. But you can't perceive. All you will ever know is of you existing. So, in a practical way, if you can only perceive existing then you exist.

This is sort of solipsistic I guess and not quite what I'm going after. Yes, you don't exist anymore in ongoing reality. But ongoing reality is not your reality anymore; the only reality you have is the one you did exist in.

she's saying something dumb like because you don't know you're dead you can't reflect on the fact that you are dead or whatever so you're immortal q.e.d

we're all shit! shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by the way i really do feel like it's a lot easier to enjoy yourself when you realize that nothing matters at all and we are but grains of sand on an infinite beach