I have somewhat of an apology to make (or, Calling Sleeper to this thread)
 

I've been a member of this community since 2007 and was once a regular poster here. Since being without a computer for a while, my post history has been erratic at best. With that being said, when I first started posting on the gen boards, I got into several debates with members of this community on the Christianity vs. Atheism subject, with me playing the role, basically, of an Christian apologist.

I am now, years later, obliged to make a retraction: after so much study, research, and deep meditation on the subject, I've all but renounced my faith in Christianity and God. What I was defending back then has become anathema to me, with it's logical fallacies, presuppositional arguments, circular reasoning, and all of the troublesome problems that plague modern religion.

Anyway, I called Sleeper out in particular because I remember him making some very important, well thought out, and patient arguments at the time of my debates and I feel a personal responsibility to thank him for that, since it stuck with me all these years and had a hand in me really searching for the truth of our existence here.

Let this serve as Netphoria's annual religion thread. Gogogogo!

cool

Enjoy eternal damnation sucker

_|_ :D _|_

nope

if we came from monkeys then why arent monkeys coming out of us

i keep it simple, i just cum in monkeys

i was an atheist until i realised i'm god

cool story bro
i'll go think about it for a couple of years and get back to you on that!

Takes a big man or woman to reason his or her deepest beliefs away.

Once you start questioning it, there's no turning back. Thanks for coming out. There are lots out here afraid to admit it.

It's been a strange journey so far. I didn't realize the emotions that go along with the severing. Much like the death of a friend. All the classical stages of the grieving process have been present every step of the way. Guess I wasn't expecting it to be so traumatic, but duo is right: they were my deepest beliefs for so long.

Interested to hear others' stories while I'm at it here (and also to have a little circlejerking for the fun of it.)

I remember in a biology class in high school a black girl that kind of looked like a baboon interrupted the teacher when talking about evolution with

"We ain't come from no damn monkeys."

hiiiiiiiiiiii exactlythesame. i guess you can think about changing your name now, huh! :D

sorry. i just like that song.

That was a weird part, the feeling of loss. Like that Thing isn't there anymore. At the same time your sense of freedom explodes and the sky gets a lot further from the ground. It's so nice knowing there's nobody above you.

One thing I've gone back on is the "people are born atheists" argument.

They are not, and studies have shown this. The brain is incredibly mysterious. Religion plays a valuable role in society. Atheism does not absolve people of racism and misogyny. I sympathize with people who are ostracized from religious communities for being non believers and some of the irreparable damage institutional religion has done to individuals, nations and societies, but atheism is unnecessary in recognizing this injustice though social activists atheists would have you believe otherwise. Atheism as a social justice movement is bunk and embarrassing. In this regard, sleeper sucks, and you should maybe hold onto a few of those humanist sentiments toward religion, exactlythesame.

I remember when sleeper complained about his jamaican workers and called them lazy and made sure to point out they were jamaican. I remember when he said black names are 'grotesque' sleeper sucks, don't apologize to him.

i dont remember that

welcome to the light my friend

julio!

this is just typical nonsensical backlash against vocal atheists. religion in this country is fucking poisonous and it's not a bad thing to point out. atheism is unnecessary in recognizing the injustice? what the fuck does that even mean? just because it's not necessary doesn't mean it shouldn't exist or that it can't help move things in a better direction. (for the purposes of this conversation assume that when i say atheism i might technically mean agnosticism)

anyway, i grew up in a mildly religious household and always thought people just did it to do it. never believed in any of it and was shocked to encounter people who did in college. and since then i have realized that i underestimated the sincerity of it when i was younger.

sleeper was a bitch. good riddance

my problem with most atheists is i get a vibe they're just now discovering what i did when i was 15 and read a few carl sagan books and act like its something revolutionary. or they cant seem to get away from the concept of "god" being relegated to a judeo christian concept

I didn't recognize this for what it was at the time because I was only 14, but losing belief in god fucked me up for years. Maybe it still does. It took me til I was 18-19 to finally really accept it. In the interim I accepted it intellectually, but emotionally still did not. After that the guilt/anxiety over it went away completely, but there is still kind of a psychological hole there that I haven't figured out. I was deeply religious when I was a Christian, which I think you were too. It's hard.

Also I remember you made fun of me for reasoning my way out of religion via internet debates. :cheers:

grieving process?

I've never grieved. When I let go of all that ridiculous BS it felt great. Like a weight was off my shoulders.

almost anything lost or over involves some kind of grief, however minor

like maybe you dont grieve the loss of it but you grieve the time you lost believing it, ya dig?

i dunno i never believed in god and then someone tried to make me and i pretended for awhile

my mom is basically a born again christian which is hilarious. thank you Al-anon :rolleyes:

Well some of us are sensitive.

This thread reminds once, I was writing this professor I had a really great review on ratemyprofessors.com, and there was this one review that went like:

"Professor So and So is one of the smartest men I have ever met. Do not take his class. Before this semester I was devoutly religious, but then he convinced me there is no God and now my life is ruined."

yeah, but that's not what he's saying. You're talking about regret. I've spoken with many people who've said this. They grieve as if an actual person died. Like they've suffered some horrible loss.

I've never understood people saying shit like that about religion. Maybe it's because I came to that realization in my teens, and I haven't devoted my life to intentionally remaining ignorant about the world. Even when I was a kid I don't think I ever really bought into it 100%. I don't get it and I never will. What is there to grieve for?

when I admitted to myself I was an atheist I felt like the world opened up. Like I went from a tiny little stale, restrictive perspective to an amazing, huge, interesting world. Something so much bigger and better than any religion could ever provide.

the only thing i can compare it to is "losing" my addiction, and i guess i did grieve over it for some time - it was my partner in life, and we could no longer be lovers (lol cheese fest i know)

religion was never part of my life growing up. i was seriously surprised to find out my mom believed in god. somehow it came up once and she asked me and i was like... no... and she freaked out a little. this was before she became all jesus-y. i must have been like 13.

seriously glad it was a non-issue for me. good on all you that got brainwashed for getting out of it.

i have a friend (well, my longtime friend's sister) who is a jew for jesus (and a lesbian). figure that one out.

i still think of religion as a crutch, but as of late i'm about as likely to make fun of religious people as i am to make fun of people who need to walk on crutches. so if someone needs to supplant their substance abuse problem with weekly bible study, then really who gives a shit.

the woman i live with is a devout christian but she's never so much as brought it up except in practical cases (if it's raining bad can you pick me up after church, etc). i like people like that. i've known some really great middle-aged christians who are extremely non-judgmental and genuinely great people. i do my best not to judge but fail sometimes.

it's really hard not to laugh in the face of scientologists though

"grieving process" is actually pretty apt, especially for those who were raised in a cult like I was. For the first 18 years of my life (until I moved out) I was in church three times a week, sometimes more, getting it drilled into my head that there is only one true way to Heaven and those who don't believe this exact way were going to hell: Jews, Catholics, Mormons, Presbyterians, LSD, gays, feminists, anyone who was not a Born-Again Christian. Hell. Fire. It is ingrained in every facet of one's life.
We were taught to look at non-believers with pity. Going to the movies was evil, anything with a drumbeat in the music was evil, women wearing pants was evil and evidence of a "backslider" or a heathen. We went door-to-door bothering people with religion because it was up to us to witness to as many people as possible. If a family we knew didn't believe our narrow view of Christianity, they weren't so much shunned but they were kept at bay. I never made proper "friends" with my extended family in California because they're mostly "non-denominational" Christians.

What else? Women were to go to a specific Bible college out in Hammond, Indiana to prepare to be housewives and/or Sunday School teachers. Men went to learn how to be heads of households and preachers.

It was this environment I was raised to love and cherish and it has taken me years to get it out of my system. I still feel guilt when I'm around my parents, immense guilty, even though they don't really say anything about it anymore. Just positing questions to them that I have does not go over well.

At this point I'm simply non-religious. I don't care one way or the other because all anyone knows is that we live one life (a life that can last ten years or ten decades) and, after that, it's over.
I don't have time to live my life scared. I have a daughter and I never, ever want to make her feel ashamed or guilty or that she could ever make me not love her.

It is a grieving process because it feels like a tremendous loss; I'm somewhere in between feeling ecstatic and free and also like there's an old friend that died.

i told you so

and welcome to the club

also this thread makes me very grateful I was not ingrained with sky man bullshit (can we still say sky man or did we decide that it is offensive?)

the significant other was raised in a moderately hardcore catholic family. She says she came to the realization that it's all made up in her early teen years, but has decided she will never as long as she lives tell her family because she is afraid it would ruin her mom's life. So every time she goes home she "becomes" Catholic. It's really sad to me that anyone can get so wrapped up in their beliefs that it would actually be the worst thing that ever happened to him/her if his/her offspring didn't want to live life the same way. It also makes me realize how discriminated against atheists are. It's not an open, institutionalized prejudice. It's more subtle than bigotry towards women, or black people, or Muslims, or Mormons, but it is insidious. How many people are there in this country who do not believe in their religion, but pretend to ascribe to it because of social pressure?

your SO needs to get the fuck over it and live her life

it's as bad as being a closeted gay. as understandable, sure. but also as bad.