Hey lala,

My point is Jimmy morphed into Billy's negative vibe at that time as it was present in many of the shows during those tours. Why Billy even started in on that old and tired topic on Isaak's show was also lame. He's the leader of the band, he could direct or redirect any question to something less pissy about James and Darcy and more appreciative towards their contributions. But maybe there in lawsuits with each other at the time, so...

Whatever Jimmy felt after the Isaak interview must have made him realize something, he bolted soon after.

aka, bill is making terrible music, he doesn't need a drummer like jimmy for that garbage

Amazing how a few ppl can figure out that Jimmy meant things that he never said

What Billy is doing right now: Making crap, mediocre music that does not require that much musical skill.

His extremely bright future: Touring with the cast of Glee.

Yeah, I'd say Jimmy was spot on with that statement.

I do not understand how Mike continually gets *worse* at Cherub Rock over time. What the fuck is up with those double snare hits during the verse and the tom/snare hits during the bridge ("Let me out")? It's really quite a feat.

Ugh can't Billy just kill the band already

It's time

The funny thing is, I was actually referring to his performance of I Am One in my earlier post but accidentally referenced Cherub Rock instead...but it's about equally true of that song, as well. :erm:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I WANNA HIT YOU SO HARD :rant:

I WANNA GROOVE ON YOUR FACE

I can only assume that you fail to see the inference / wider context from which you lift out your favourite quote. 'Amazing' how everybody else sees it but you...

I'll take Jimmy's statements on face value. i've not read or heard anything to suggest that he doesn't believe that Mike is a good/great drummer.

And i'm not going to speculate on the motivations, thoughts or feelings of Jimmy, James, D'arcy, etc. All anybody has to go on is their collective public statements when it comes to their feelings on the past, present and future of SP. I don't have a broken heart over the band splitting up, or Jimmy leaving, or Zwan or any of that shit. And if I did I wouldn't start using that as motivation to read shit into statements by any of the Pumpkins and twist those statements to reflect my emotional bias on the subject.

Face value? What did you really expect Jimmy to say when confronted with the question? "No, I think Mike is a shit drummer that suits Billy's new shit music?" Jimmy said the safest thing he could say. The key words are "perfect for what Billy is doing now."

you believe what you want to believe. and I'll believe what he actually said and leave it at that.

Jimmy knows how to be diplomatic...:)

Or you could learn to read between the lines. Here is a recent quote from Billy to help you out: "When you're in public life, you have a tendency to not really listen to what people say, but try to hear what they are really saying."

Jimmy could say Mike is the best drummer he's ever heard. It doesn't actually make Mike any less terrible.

Exactly.

[I just left my job because it was a bit shit/unsatisfying/constricting --- the new guy, yeah he is perfect for it]

:erm:

Lol you guys actually think a middle aged man is gonna say anything negative about some teenager who worshiped him? Jeeze. And its not like Jimmys ever jammed with Mike Byrne, all hes probably heard him play on would be the shitty Teargarden by Kalaidescope 44 song masterpiece album... Which Mike plays awful on.

Billys just dragging this tired corpse of a band around trying to live up to the past glory of Smashing Pumpkins and its not really convincing anybody. I honestly don't know what hes trying to prove anymore. It would be a better PR move to just go by Billy Corgan at this point.

And am I the only one who doesn't see whats so great about Nicole? She cant sing, she plays the bass like a guitar... The only argument from Montes crew is "well Darcy sucked too" But Darcy was cool as fuck at the least... Not playing in a third rate version of a 90's one hit wonder band.

WHY? Do you enjoy being incredibly dense and not bothering to think? The character of Sherlock Holmes has intrigued and inspired generations by his feats of inferential reasoning that others can only aspire to achieve. Your country goes to war because it believes shit "on face value" and doesn't bother to inquire properly. That sort of deep thinking is for losers, right? Corganist at least has the excuse that he is practicing apologetics for his budding career as a lawyer. What's your fucking excuse?

His excuse is hes gay with Monte

wtf does any of this have to do with sherlock holmes or George's Bush's foreign policy (which BTW I completely rejected from the beginning)?

please die

It has to do with the fact that you seem unable to read between the lines. You think this chickenshit line up is just as good as the original. You must be deaf and retarded.

to all the people arguing in this thread, how the fuck old are you guys anyway?

26. But there are some things that just put me on end, like a person who unabashedly refuses to read between the lines when it is completely appropriate to do so and in fact a completely logical way to go about finding the intended meaning behind something. It's a trait that has serious real-world consequences and therefore I don't get along with people who exhibit this characteristic, no matter what the disagreement itself is actually about.

the old line up... the band that existed through MCIS was fantastic. I'm not arguing against any of that. I loved that band. I liked SP without Jimmy. I like SP when D'arcy was gone. I liked SP when billy reformed the band. It's never been the same as it was back in the 90s. But there's no way it can be. That band is gone.

I like the new line up. I like the new songs.

It's possible to like both. I'm not going to get my hate on every day worrying about why billy and james don't speak anymore. Or reading my anger into a few comments jimmy made in 2009. it isn't worth it.

but doesn't it suck that the quality of music has decreased so much and that they cant even even do the old songs justice anymore? Rhythm is one of the most important things in a rock band and this new drummer is all over the place with no consistency... So those 2 things combined makes for a pretty unfulfilling experience.

But hey if you enjoy listening to Byrne banging his drums around all over the place on boring songs like Astral Planes and the generic vibe of widow and fellowship all the power to ya... BUT... You should be aware that theirs many new bands that blow that crap outta the water.

I only visit the board cause I'm curious because I'm so heavily invested in the old music that I'm curious if Billy can save this shipwreck.

I don't view it that way.

Billy is still writing great songs. I didn't care for some of the old stuff. Ive never been a huge fan of Gish, for instance. I'd rank it near the bottom on my list. I absolutely hated Zwan at the time (grew on me after the fact) And I don't like some of the newer stuff either. I was slamming the horrible studio version of Owata as much as anybody earlier this year.

I have no problems with Mike. I like Nicole too. I like that the new band is not much like the old SP. The new band is simply different musically. I'm OK with that. If they weren't touring as SP, Billy would still have these people together probably making the same songs.

Even if it's the Billy Corgan Project I'm going to listen to it. He's a better songwriter/musician than 99% of what's out there today (new or old). And the fact that he's bipolar and prone to outbursts just makes it more fun to spectate.

If I'm guilty of anything it's misjudging the depth of emotion that some people on the board have for the old band. It's always impressed me as petty and shallow and just arguing for the sake of arguing. Maybe I was mistaken. And I get that. But just because I think the new rhythm section is good doesn't mean that I'm an apostate, or that I'm shitting on Jimmy's legacy or anything.