Originally Posted by LaBelle (Post 4512748)

1. racism is dependent on a power structure, it's based on a group of people removing power and dehumanizing another group of people based on their race. You can't have one without the other.
2. Prejudice and bigotry can happen from minorities but it will never be racism, exactly because it doesn't carry the same repercussions, a white person will never get arrested, murdered, beaten up, forbidden from entering a store based on their skin color.
3. Language is constantly changing and evolving to suit the needs of the time.

Originally Posted by Disco King (Post 4512784)

Language is changing, but the definition of words tracks the general use of those words.

The word "racism," as used by most English speakers, has a wider meaning than just "institutional racism," and describes a range of things from power structures to individual mental attitudes.

What "need" is being suited by redefining the word "racism" to mean "institutional racism?" If the goal is to serve as a response to people who try to downplay the significance of racism against minorities with "but minorities can be racist against minorities, too!", then, as I said, I think the proper response to that is simply to explain that racism against minorities is often backed by societal power that sustains inequalities, rather than just to redefine racism so that one can go "that doesn't count." This is one of those cases where I agree with the general position as some other people, but think that the argument they use in support of said position is poor, and would rather see my position supported by stronger arguments to present the strongest possible version of my position.

Like, if we go with the redefining option, we're led to some conclusions that seem clearly wrong. Let's take a minority who has more societal power than is typical of his ethnicity, such as Barack Obama. If racism must be "prejudice + power," then a poor Southern white who compares Obama to a monkey isn't really being racist, because he has less power than Obama. This seems to me to be a wrong conclusion, because the white guy in question is clearly racist, so the argument that leads to it must be wrong.

Also, the bit about a white person never being at risk of being beaten up or murderered for being white just isn't true, but I don't feel like posting the examples of it happening because I'm not interested in looking like I'm going on some crusade to make these incidents seem equivalent in scope to the historical and continuing violence against minorities. But yeah, the prejudiced-and-bigotted-but-maybe-not-racist minorities sometimes commit pretty bad hate crimes against white people simply because they are white.

Originally Posted by LaBelle (Post 4512792)

:erm: This is fuzzy level of word salad nonsense and logical fallacy.
I suggest you do some more reading and freshen up your sources a bit, or don't... I don't know... live your truth or whatever makes you happy.
Happy trails.

Originally Posted by Disco King (Post 4512794)

Could you point out the logical fallacies?

Originally Posted by smashingjj (Post 4512789)

guys, can we settle this by all playing our favourite Falco albums? guy just had natural swagger

Originally Posted by yo soy el mejor (Post 4512756)

ya hear that, ryan and shallowed?

Originally Posted by Disco King (Post 4512799)

I suppose repeating a bare assertion with no attempt at constructing an argument to support it, simply dismissing any argument questioning said bare assertion as "logical fallacies," and responding to any request to illuminate which logical fallacies have been committed with a Big Bang Theory Tumblr GIF, is a suitable alternative to making an attempt to respond in good faith.

Originally Posted by LaBelle (Post 4512810)

:rolleyes:

You're using very similar talking points and trying to bait me into a "logical argument" like the racist right winger nuts on the internet do. So congrats.

Originally Posted by ovary (Post 4512838)

also i identify as she/her/hers dont misgender me you neanderthal

Originally Posted by Shallowed (Post 4512831)

Ovary is the only person that said that, and I don't know who the fuck they are

Originally Posted by ovary (Post 4512837)

man i didnt say that i think its a good concept, just that it doesn't make sense, nor is it rhetorically effective, to say it "doesn't exist."

but labelle doesnt want to argue about reverse racism, she just wants to call people racists in snide ways.

Originally Posted by LaBelle (Post 4512843)

I don't blame you for not reading or making sense of Disco King's posts, but why the fuck are you giving me shit about it.

Originally Posted by Disco King (Post 4512744)

I think their rationale is that they don't want the racism of minorities against whites to be considered morally equivalent to the racism of whites against minorities. Especially when white racists try to make them seem equivalent to muddy the waters of debate, I can understand this intent. But it's unnecessary, because one can easily call any prejudice or discrimination on the basis of race "racism" while still holding that racism backed by power, namely the racism of whites against minorities, is worse because it has wider societal implications than a single interpersonal interaction.

Originally Posted by Disco King (Post 4512784)

If the goal is to serve as a response to people who try to downplay the significance of racism against minorities with "but minorities can be racist against whites, too!", then, as I said, I think the proper response to that is simply to explain that racism against minorities is often backed by societal power that sustains inequalities…

Originally Posted by Disco King (Post 4512812)

I don't see how my position is similar to a right-wingers' when I specifically gave an accountant of how we can still analyze racism against minorities as a more pernicious and entrenched phenomenon than racism against whites without having to redefine any words. My position, for anyone who's been paying attention, is still that white people have power in society, rendering their racism against other ethnic and racial groups supportive of systems of inequality and oppression.

Originally Posted by Shallowed (Post 4512847)

I'm more concerned with convincing Labelle that I have nothing to do with you, rather than convincing you and only you that reverse racism doesn't exist

Originally Posted by yo soy el mejor (Post 4512643)

not really

she really did adopt some of the worst female white feminist stereotypes and posting pics with her new dildos and shit. oh please.