The Final ZEITGEIST Debate!
 

Ok, I listened to ZEITGEIST for the first time since 2007... i remember it sucking way more back in 2007 than it does now. BEFORE I GO ANY FURTHER, LET ME SAY THIS: it blows as a pumpkins album because its not consistently 100% awesome like their REAL work had been consistently awesome... With that being said, ZEITGEIST has, as far as im concerned (y'all can weigh in), some of the best PUMPKINS material ever... 7 Shades of Black, Tarantula, United States, Never Lost, Bleeding the Orchid... songs like Bring the Light, Thats The Way, Doomsday Clock, Come On Lets Go are what drag the album down with their mediocrity... and then those last 2 tracks, for god and cuntry and pomp and circumstance are just LAME...

Ok let ANOTHER zeitgeist debate commence...

now exactly just what the hell kind of egomaniacal asshole are you? "im making a new thread, and god damn, this will be the last thread on this topic!!!"

what a jerk. who the hell do you think you are

yeah!!!

god fucking dammit!

you forgot to call the thread "official".

i'm unclear on what's being debated

doesn't matter. it's final!

fuggin aint...

wow... I don't know what to SAY against such STRONG ARGUMENTS... DUDE... some song from ZEITGEIST are good others aren't...

dunno MAN... you ARE A fag though...

lol "real" work

I hate to bump this

don't think a 3 hour gap in posting required a bump.

i kind of agree with RockLobster. it is the only pumpkins album that i have to steel myself to listen to. for sure, it could've been a lot better, even with the basic song structures unaltered. the terrible idea of mixing the vocals so prominently, the ahh-ing and repetitious vocals (BTL and Orchid being prime offenders) to fill gaps rather than just let the music (which is generally good) breath. God and Country not being acoustic. Some songs making the cut ahead of superior material (stellar/zeitgeist/ma belle instead of Pomp/BTL etc).

I think that's unfair. I know from speaking to people involved with the ZG recording process that he spent an unhealthy amount of time trying to get the right tone for each track, to the point of driving people crazy. It's just a shame that the tonal qualities he wanted to achieve didn't sound that interesting to an audience of more than one.

It's hard to get people to care after a 5 year hiatus, especially if you're not a pop star and the new deviates from the old.

thats no excuse

actually that kind of thing happens more often than you think...

they should have released the disco version of For God and Country.

I can tell they set out to make zietgeist a straight up stoner rock album but along the way lost their way with some of the poppier elements. it suffers Mary Star's 'let's play it safe to reach a broader audience approach' which is sort of unforgivable because zwan was the biggest misstep of Jim and bols' career and they know it. but.. All's not lost. Like Mary star there are some gems (tarantula, death from above) but .. couldve been more

Tarantula, Zeitgeist, United States are all good songs

Bring the Light is also a good song, and doesn't really sound like anything else SP has done, and the solo is wicked, but the lyrics are awful

The other songs are varying shades of mediocrity to suck, but most of them have at least some redeeming elements

Not a very good album, especially compared to SP1 records, but also not as terrible as some make it out to be.

it makes TFE seem like a great album by comparison [which it really isn't]
all its probs have been restated endlessly so i won't
tarantula, TTW, and US are worthy songs

That's what's always puzzled me. Based on the interviews, it sounds as though he actually put a great deal of effort into making production choices intended to enhance various elements of the sound. But you just don't really hear it. I suppose it's that old aphorism, "you can polish a turd, but...". Not that Z is actually on the level of complete turd quality, but it is somehow rather flat and completely uninspiring.

I get the impression that in many ways he is reacting against contemporary rock music, but his perception of what is contemporary is totally fucked up. He shows this in countless interviews.

The only song I liked on Zeitgeist is Neverlost. But I haven't listened to it in years. I'd have to download it to do so.

Yep, I liked Neverlost, and to a much lesser extent Pomp & Circumstance. They seemed like the logical next step from TFE

i like seven shades of black.

You know, now that I think about it, one of the things that makes Zeitgeist so offensive to me is how Billy's voice sounds. In the past his awful vocals somehow complemented and even fit the music. But now it's just an awful cacophony.

CAIC's seven shades comment is what got me thinking about this. Billy's voice sounds so terribly corny and lackluster, especially when paired with that overkilled distorted guitar. It just all sounds... plastic? Does that make any sense? I don't know. It just sounds forced and retarded.

Zeitgeist is a good album, it's better than Machina and Gish.

Anyway, there's no "fucking great songs" at first listening and I think the other albums have higher highlights, but, Machina, for example, has the lowest songs in a pumpkin album.

united states is the only song on that record that reminds me of the pumpkins. the rest is filth.

and gossamer is the only reason that i'm grateful for zeitgeist era shows.

seriously? i much prefer mary star of the sea. zeitgeist is unlistenable