the illegal traffic from canada has to stop!!!!

It's not just nimrod. I was really referring to the grassroots arm of the anti-immigration folk, groups like the minutemen and Save our State who do not hide the racial element of their movements. Meanwhile republicans knowingly pass on denouncing these groups because its important to have them on board to galvanize their base, to let them do the mudslinging against immigrants.

yup

same old crap since 1835

I don't blame the people you moron, I blame the system that is set up to reward such behavior.

ok so how did they bankrupt california

the crystal ball says nimrod will reply "I don't have time to explain things to you, idiot."

ahahah crippler is a conservative

There is no Representative from Texas named Salvador Ortiz. There is a Solomon Ortiz.

Reading your own words, the bill would essentially make it easier for people born in the united states to acquire a passport.

outrageous

So how do illegal immigrants avoid paying sales tax? gas tax? property tax on a home? Social Security witholding?

illegal immigration is bad. just not as bad as you think it is. there are so many worse things to worry about in this economy. illegal immigration is just an easy scapecoat for people who don't want to think too hard.

They also provide cheap labor and keep the cost of goods down.

Well if you could point me to one conservative on this board that wasn't a head up his ass moron for many reasons besides their politics, I might be able to dispute this point but we got Corganist and Nimrod so...

and don't say jczeroman because he's a far radical liberal.

Like this fella.

and goddamn it why can't you guys be a brutal poet like bill is

Is your mouth all glued up with cunny juice I asked you a question.

also why don't we just naturalize all of them as they came in like they did in bill's time mm?

oh dear what craziness

i don't think that's how you use the word microcosm

You just proved his point.

What reason would you have to call me a head up my ass moron other than my politics?

And of that 35 million, how many can afford insurance and just choose not to buy it, either because they're young and invincible or they just can afford to pay out of pocket? Quite a few. How many are between jobs and just don't have insurance at one point or another through the year but have it when they're employed? Quite a few more. There's a lot more going on in those numbers than anyone is letting on.

And even if you use the worst interpretation of the numbers, that amounts to what? 15 percent of the country uninsured? That's not ideal, but that's not a crisis either. It's certainly not enough of one to throw out the baby with the bathwater and start up a new system from the ground level willy-nilly. How can we gamble with the coverage of the 80ish percent of the country who is insured in such a way?

It's funny you should bring that up, because do you know who has the worst reputation in the health-care industry for paying for services in full and on time? The United States Government! A lot of providers just don't take medicare and medicaid patients because the government just doesn't pay what they're supposed to on it. And then, private insurance has to take up the slack. And because the government's ineptitude has heaped demand on private insurance, private insurance premiums go up. So we have a situation where government involvement has fucked the whole system...and the answer is more government involvement? How is that supposed to work? What makes anyone think the government can run a universal program if they can barely run something as decidedly smaller in scale as Medicare?

How would you know? You're just forming the assumptions to make yourself feel better. You think all these illegal immigrants are homeless? Even if they're just renting, they're paying fees and taxes on utilities, and paying a landlord who pays property taxes.

It's a reasonable to assume that illegal immigration is a net drain on the economy, but you're obviously exaggerating the problems.

My original point stands: there are more important things that need fixing.

Even if you got your wish and we magically disappeared all illegal immigrants from California, guess what, the state would be still bankrupt.

crippler have you been lurking this whole time

font colors are so 2002

.

i mean if it helps you sleep at night that i think you're a fuckhead simply because of your politics then go right ahead

how about the way you talk about arkansas football like you're just a coach away from a national title

i don't need to make a list. your politics are just the icing on the douchebag cake.

fact is "illegals" bring great profit. people only want them gone when there's a crisis.

what is more convenient then the possibility of underpaying someone, abusing them, without them having the legal right to demand anything?

This notion that "the govt just doesn't pay what they're supposed to" is not a bug but a feature. I guess if you're a private insurance company or drug company and you see how medicaid and medicare, with their massive benefits of scale, reap huge savings and cost reductions (e.g., medicaid negotiating deep discounts on drugs), you would be apt to accuse them of "not paying what they're suppose to."

Medicare has kept its cost growth below that of the private insurers. Both Medicare and Medicaid have wildly low administration costs compared to that of the private insurance (6% vs 30%).

And if anybody jumps up to accuse the govt of forcing medicare/medicaid on anybody, it's simply not true. Medical facilities are free to decide whether they will accept or refuse medicare/medicaid patients. Obviously, hospitals do not make as much profit from medicare/medicaid patients compared to privately insured patients. But if it becomes actually unprofitable, then hospitals all over the country would drop their medicare/medicaid patients and it would spurn the govt to raise their reimbursement rates.

Despite this popular meme that private companies always run things more efficiently than govt, it's simply not true in the case of healthcare. And why is that?

The key is probably the fact that the govt is not looking to make a profit in this business. There is just something distasteful with having a profit motive here, where it benefits a private insurance to deny somebody coverage or underinsure them.

Now some may say that being nonprofit gives the govt system an unfair advantage over the private market, but again, I would say that's a feature, not a bug. The private market should do better. They're always suppose to do better than govt, right?