nice critque there lie...care to pick me up on a specific point that didn't make sense?

i'm not going to make a big "pot kettle black" arguement out of this.
dave, i did get your point, there wasn't much to get. i'm just saying numbing the pain doesn't make it right and other animals have different genetic makeups than us and lower intellegence, so we can't compare them to us. anyway, i'm not going to get into that anymore. i'm just going to give a couple of good websites to look over some actual facts about the subject instead of a millions assumptions and theories.

www.eatveg.com
http://uglygrrrl.homestead.com/meat.html

you can refuse it if you choose, but then you're just continuing with an uninformed view, LIKE A DUMB STUPID AMERICAN. there, i said it.

------------------
"Honies play me close like butter played toast, from the Mississippi down to the east coast."

why read factual stuff off websites, when you have this...

If jivewhiteboy didn't do a good job of making his point clear, I'm sure Dan, J and Rhonda did. Maybe you should read their posts, Dave!

no, but if you want me to I will.

Originally posted by Scouse_Dave:
"so what's wrong with sedating them before killing 'em? they won't feel anything then..."

For the same reason it is wrong to sedate people before killing them. Why do we have the right to kill animals? We don't. Not unless we have to to survive. And we don't need to to survive.

"er...wrong. there are numerous cases of animals in the wild killing for fun/when they already have a plentiful supply."

Like what? They may enjoy killing their prey, but they do not kill just because it is fun.

"do you use soap? or eat candy? or wear (most varieties of) shoes? etc etc"

Certain soaps I do. (as long as they contain no animal ingredients and are not tested on animals) Candy-some candy, not jube jubes or anything that has geletin in them. Shoes-as long as they are synthetic and do not contain any animal parts. etc etc

"i have a couple of problems with vegans. the first is that of the cruelty issue, they don't want to see the animal suffer. would they be happy if the animal was drugged to its eyeballs and felt no pain when it was whacked over the head with an iron bar or whatever? i suspect, not. so this is bullshit."

I would be happier if the animal felt no pain, but i would still not approve. It is also not the actuall killing that is cruel, it is also the way their lives are before they are killed as well. The slaughter houses do not treat the animals kindly the at all before their lives are taken away.

Vegetables and fruit: Humans, no matter if you eat meat or not, need plants to survive. One cannot live a healthy life by just eating meat, eggs, and dairy. However, I do believe that plants should not be destroyed needlessly. Plants do not have brains or a nervous system either, so I believe they do not feel pain. I have no proof that they do. But like I said, we need plants to survive. We do not need to eat animals to survive.

Also, I try the best I can to live a life that causes the least amount of suffering for all creatures. I make mistakes now and again. (Eating something that i think is vegan, but finding out later it wasn't) That just means I won't eat it again. All i can do is try my best day to day and try to make the best decisions in order to cause the least amount of suffering I can.

http://www.kissfm.com/timages/page/moby.jpg

not quite sure what that is supposed to mean...

while that was a rather stupid thing to post, it was still funny. good play.

Nah, not really. This argument is tiring.

Yeah, Lie won.

101
yipdi doo

Maybe i've read their posts, and maybe i disagree with them, Julio!

and you lost. gg.

wbx, thread