god made you fat!

I'm not fat... I'm just blessed with hips. Good for having kids and all that...

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

I'm not religious, but I don't have anything against religions.
If they enforce morals and civility, then i think it’s a shame more people aren’t involved.

I don't think religious causes are a waste of time. The importance of Religious ideals aren't just about believing in life after death, or a saviour, they teach the importance of conscionable behaviour; something which is sadly lacking from the obnoxious atheists evident in this thread.

Jihad?
Inquisition?
little boys getting their wieners played with?
Israel?

Obnoxious atheists? Just because we don't believe in religion as strongly as some people do believe in it doesn't mean we're obnoxious. I don't believe any of us atheist in the thread are evil, we have morals, they're just based on humanity and civil rights, not so that we can sit next to Jesus and Sinatra on a cloud.

i think there's more conceit in society now that the strength of religion has faded, due to logistics and scientific advances.
the fact is, most people need to believe that there are repercussions for deviant behaviour, to prevent them from doing what they want.

ideally there would be no such thing as religion, but i think it's human nature for theism to be created as a form of control and unification, but consequently it also leads to separation from those of differing faith.

Most of the modern humanitarian notions of morality would not exist without the centuries of religious underpinning. That isn’t to say that there isn’t an inherent code for morality.

is stealing wrong just because it is stated as such in the ten commandments? I doubt it, considering that even my dog decided to bite me when I tried to take his treats away, the repercussions I faced were to be bitten... But for people, now that we no longer think we’re going to hell because if it, the only thing stopping us is the law.
But the law doesn’t cover all unconscionable behaviour, it doesn’t really stop you from being an asshole, does it?

You imply that religion is bad because of people fighting for their ‘promised land’, but can you say that war would not exist otherwise? I would argue that it's human(animal) nature to be territorial, and confrontational, and religion is more of a regulatory system which sets boundaries.
Such boundaries that wouldn’t hurt to be reinforced in this case.

[This message has been edited by wangcomputers (edited 07-02-2002).]

I can't wait for the new south park http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/biggrin.gif

Adam, I would just like to say that the whole concept is entirely fucking nuts.

That being said, I admire you for some strange reason, and always have. I have always thought of you as one of my favorite posters here, always able to add a new perspective, and possibly open my eyes to something I had not seen before. Weather I agree with you or not, you have always expressed your opinions in a manner often unseen around here. I wish you and Jenny the best of luck and good fortune.

[This message has been edited by The Gaddrow (edited 07-02-2002).]

If you wrote that that's pretty good.

my question: what will happen to me when i die if i don't believe in jesus/the LDS doctrine?

All good questions... here we go. Beware... long answers ahead.

1.) Yes, I do pay a full tithe, 10% of my income. I'm not gonna lie to you, it is a tough thing to do sometimes. But I honestly believe that one of the reasons why I'm so financially blessed is because I've been honest with my tithing.

A lot of people criticize our Church 'cause we've got a lot of money. But one thing that I need to underscore is that we do not have a paid clergy. Our local leaders who probably volunteer 40 hours of their time (or more) a week aren't paid for any of it. Most of them have familes, and full time jobs to boot. So it's not like the 10% I pay from my check is going into a slush fund somewhere for clergy members' paychecks.

That 10% goes to build new meetinghouses, temples, and service those buildings all around the globe. The church also has a number of other programs that members can choose to donate towards, such as a large scale humanitarian fund, and a recent addition to the Church's programs is called the Perpetual Education Fund. Off-topic, but I'll explain it anyways.

Say that there's a 20 year old guy much like me who decides to go on a mission. The only difference is that he lives in the middle of a literal jungle in Brazil. He has no real education, and no real way to support himself once he returns, so while he's serving his mission in New York, he's covered for and is happy. However, upon returning home, he finds himself stuck in the same spot that he was before he left. Church members have started a rotating fund to loan money to kids like him so that they can go to school somewhere, learn a trade, and hopefully start to break the poverty cycle. Once they've got their skills, they pay back the loan and go forward. The money is then loaned out to the next person in another part of the world, helping once more to enrich the community where the person lives, and teach the person a valuable trade. I think it's a great system, and something that a lot of other religions and/or service organizations could follow suit on.

2. All of your facts on our health code, called the Word of Wisdom, are correct. We don't smoke, drink alcohol, coffee, tea, or do illegal drugs. As for the caffeine issue, you're also correct. The Church dosen't have an official stance on caffinated soft drinks, simply because the revelation regarding the Word of Wisdom was given in the year 1833, when Jolt Cola wasn't around. It is left up to personal choice, many members choose not to drink any sort of caffeine. I drink Coke and what-not, and I admire the members who don't drink caffeine. You can read the Word of Wisdom in it's entirety here:

http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/89

3.) Being a missionary is a literal full-time job from 6:00 AM until 9:00 PM. Many people wonder if we work part time jobs or something to support ourselves when we're out there, but we do not. Missions are generally self-funded. However, there are donation funds set up to assist missionaries who need financial support. I will be paying for a portion of it, and my parents will be funding the rest. It's really not as expensive as one would think, seeing how living costs are reduced because you split a lot of it with other missionaries.

Geeze, those were really long-winded answers... probably will spur a few more questions. Hope those helped.

Thanks for being an intelligent human being and doing research on something to draw your own conclusions. 99/100 people only know all of the cliches about Mormons and go from there.

And as for the salesman comment... thanks there, too.

Mike, let me tell you that the feeling is totally mutual. It's exactly the way you put it- I'm not quite sure why, but I admire you for that same strange reason you admire me. Thanks for the kind words.




[This message has been edited by Raskolnikov (edited 07-02-2002).]

i did thanks.

I was in Cambridge, England a couple months ago searching for Pink Floyd landmarks and was approached by a young lady who was about my age. When she spoke she did not have a British accent, so I asked were she was from, and she said Virginia. It turns out she was doing her service over there, which I found surprising.

We had a pleasant conversation (which she did an impressive job of turning back to god every minute or so- I made it a game for myself to get the conversation away from religion, but I lost) discussing various things including my lackadaisical attitude toward religion (do they have a name for someone who just doesn't care about religion whatsoever?), and she was very respectful of my 'beliefs', which was a first in my dealings with 'religion salesmen'.

I sure hope you take her attitude- she was very kind and unobtrusive, but did what was asked of her. If you do, you'll definitely make a better name for those who are considered 'religion salesman' by the general pulic. Good luck.

[This message has been edited by AndySlash (edited 07-02-2002).]

Adam, we've never really conversed, but I've always found you to be one of the most polite, intelligent and level-headed people on these boards, and it's a genuine shame that you're going to be leaving. So, I wish you the best of luck, and thanks for all the info--I might not agree with all the religious aspects of what you're doing, but I admire you for having the fortitude to stick to your guns and for doing it in the most compassionate, respectful way possible. That's rare nowadays, and somewhat extraordinary.

Good luck man - I hope you learn and grow from the experience. Does this mean you get a netphoria blackout a la Lucas?

Interesting story... do you know what faith she was? If she was alone, then she wasn't a Mormon- our missionaries are always in pairs. I know what you mean, though... it shows talent in a missionary when they can share their message without shoving a bible in your face... that attitude towards it just isn't in my character.

Yes, it does... but my girlfriend back home in Michigan will probably give Adam updates every now and then. I really don't know how much action there will be to report, but I'm sure she'll do it.

Maybe I'll even pull a Lucas and peek my head in every now and then.

Yes, I meant to say she was a LDS (the whole reason I mention the story was because of this), and she did have a companion, but she stood off in the distance- again, a sign of respect in my eyes.

i may be intelligent (probably not) but i'm still intolerant.

here's a question: do mormons have an active role in government and voting?

In the early days of our Church, we were persecuted horribly - angry mobs, tar & feathers, you name it. We were ran out of state after state after state, with a governent issued "extermination order" giving people the right to "exterminate" us like animals. Eventually it got so bad that while Joseph Smith was imprisioned in Carthage, IL, an angry mob broke in and murdered both him and his brother, Hyrum. That's what prompted us to make the trek across the country to start colonizing Utah.

We believe very strongly in voicing our opinions at the polls and are encouraged frequently by our local and top leaders to vote so that nobody in our country ever falls under that or any sort of persecution.

I should also mention as a caveat to that - they don't tell us what to vote for. That's also a key point to our stance on religion, that as with all things in life, we've got our own agency to choose who or what we want to vote for.




[This message has been edited by Raskolnikov (edited 07-02-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Raskolnikov (edited 07-02-2002).]

that's too bad. i mean, there shouldn't be such persecution. but still, i like jehovah's witnesses better, because they don't vote. i'm sure my friend quoted me scripture as to why they don't.

[This message has been edited by Irrelevant (edited 07-02-2002).]

Adam - you are such an amazing person! As I read this thread, I gained an entirely new appreciation for your humility and the strength of your testimony. Don't ever doubt your ability - you are going to be the BEST missionary that South Dakota has ever seen! I love you and I'm so proud of you.

If you know anything about the aliens they are hiding down at the Granite Mountain facility, I'd like to hear about it. Also, can you tell us anything about that Jesus cloning project? Thanks.

w0rd

no motherfucking thank you.

ive left the lds faith and i dont plan on coming back.

good luck tho!

oh and i think is hould clear up that they (missionaries) arent doing any educating/community volunteering. they might do some, but the majority of the time is knocking on doors and such and getting people to learn about and join the church.

[This message has been edited by tootsie (edited 07-03-2002).]

hah. really, why are there scientists in a LDS records facility? why is there is a laboratory?

All I know about the Granite Mountain area is that it's a record storing place. Our Church has one (if not the) of the largest collections of genological records anywhere on the Earth. The work that's been put into it is immense- people all across the globe have contributed to it, and people from all across the world travel to Utah to access the databases. Naturally, they want those records to be completely safe.

They also store records of important church documents, like date records of people who have been baptized. As for it storing religious artifacts, I've never heard anything about that.

To my knowledge, there's no labratory or anything of the sort there. If you could find me a source (besides that guy on the message board who's seen one too many episodes of X-Files, in my opinion) where it tells that there's a lab section of the facility, then my curiosity would be just as sparked as yours would be.

I'm not gonna lie to you - when I read that post and saw the photos, my curiosity was definately sparked. I read the whole post and was just as interested as everybody else. I don't think the cave with that tank door that he found was hooked up to the GMF at all, I think it's just an old mine shaft.

I definately wanna learn more, and I'm planning on reading all I can about the place, but not from urban explorers.

[shrugs]

Hey, thanks a lot. It's cool to know that I'm noticed. Drop me a PM and we'll chat a little bit... I don't even know your name.