Conservatives Vs. Liberals on this board...
 

I always find it so funny that the board is so opposite the country as a whole... granted, this poll might not have been very scientific, but it's still funny. The Pledge ruling apparently isn't as popular as it is here.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/29/poll.pledge/index.html

Then again, this can also be contributed to the good ol' American tradition of "Whatever, I don't give a fuck."

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

It really doesn't matter what they think, because it's clearly unconsitutional. The constitution is clearly fine for these people when it supports their right to keeping a shotgun where their kids can find them.

Blah.

wow, 87% of americans are fucking stupid.

Wow, you're ignorant

Just because people don't agree with you, they're fucking stupid?

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

In this case, yes.

The Constitution itself has many mentions of "God"... so the Constitution itself is fucking unconstitutional.

http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/rolleyes.gif

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/biggrin.gif

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

AMENDMENT I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

Thank You, Captain Obvious

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

Ok, I will spell it out for you. The first amendment clearly says that the government shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, right?

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
Date: 13th century
1 a : the state of a religious b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance


There are, believe it or not, Godless people in America, and a pretty substantial amount of them. By putting that in the pledge, you are excluding them as American people. They are not under any God, and because of that, it is implied that they are not worthy of being Americans.

i'd say that people who hate religious freedom are pretty fucking stupid.

also.

9% people said the pledge should not contain "under God."

36% of people said that the government should avoid promoting religion in any way.

doesn't this seem like a bit of a contradiction?

and if 54% of people want to have the government promote religion, that's really really sad.

That poll doesn't come as much of a surprise to me considering that over 90% of Americans believe in God. Couple that with the fact that most people are inconsiderate of others and there you go.

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And there is no Law that said you HAD to say the fucking pledge of allegiance. If you don't want to say it, don't say it. If you want to leave out the "under God" part, leave it out. Same as praying at football games. If you don't want to pray, don't pray.

Sure, you should respect the beliefs of the minority, but you should also respect the beliefs of the majority as well.

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

[This message has been edited by BeautifulLoser (edited 06-30-2002).]

See, there's a loophole. The government cannot establish religion, but congress can apply whatever kind of religious ethics they want to a bill and eventually pass it and make it a law. So, if 51% of Americans are of the same religious domination...100% will be.

They're not stupid; they're hypocrites. They don't believe in freedom at all, they only believe in their OWN freedom.

Ok, let's see... if 91% of people believe in God, of COURSE they wouldn't see anything wrong with putting God in the Pledge.. so that doesn't suprise me. As for the 54% that want the government to promote religion... I agree, that's shit.

But I find it funny that if someone put a picture of Buddha in a courthouse, the general concesus would be "Hey, that's pretty neat, they're being tolerant of other religions.." but if you try to put up the Ten Commandments, it's "OH MY GOD!! THEY'RE PROMOTING CHRISTIANITY! TAKE IT DOWN NOW!"

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

I know I don't have to say it, but you've never been on the butt end of 30 students and a teacher ridiculing you for not saying the stupid pledge because of those two words, have you?

It's state endorsed, and that is what's wrong.

Dude...don't make sweeping assumptions like that when you argue.

it's socially frowned upon not to pledge allegience.

the Under God part was added by a resolution by congress, i'd say pretty strongly that falls under the jurisdiction of not making laws about the establishment of religion.

consider, for a moment, that you were the minority. say this was an islamic nation, with the same constitution and the same pledge, only with the words "under Allah" and your currency said "in Allah we trust."

you're in 1st grade, and every day you're expected to stand up and pledge allegience to a nation "under Allah."

how would you feel about this? how would you feel about your children being expected to pledge the same way? wouldn't you expect the religious freedom the constitution guarantees you?

You don't say the pledge, kids make fun of you. Teachers put you on the spot about it. Kids call you a devil worshipper when you say you don't like the Under God part.

Yeah, I had a big choice in not saying the pledge of allegiance.

Unlikely.

Actually, no I haven't... but I've been ridiculed for being Christian. But I'm not screaming intolerance to the people that ridicule me, am I? I'm not screaming intolerance when they tell me I can't pray in school...

This argument is pointless.

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

Why not? It might be extreme, but it's damn true...

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

They don't tell you that. They tell you that it can't be taught.

You're neglecting one fact: in Islam, you can do whatever you please to infidels. Therefore, logically, if you didn't say the pledge, you'd likely be under a lot more torment than simple taunting.

What? You are allowed to pray in school. I don't care if you pray in school because it's not state endorsed. That is the difference. Your actions are not state endorsed, however, the schools' are.

I'd tell my kids that it's alright to say the pledge, but if they feel uncomfortable saying "Under Allah", then don't say it. I'm sure that if they're standing there in a group of 1st graders and they leave out two words, no one's going to notice.

I've had friends that do this, and no one ever says anything to them... maybe I'm just from a really tolerant town or something.

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

you can pray all you want to in school, provided you're not expected to be doing schoolwork. the faculty cannot lead you in prayer, or encourage you to pray, however.

there you go with sweeping assumptions again.

As I said before, maybe I grew up in a more tolerant place than you did.


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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

so you wouldn't care that you live in a nation that actively endorses a religion which you don't believe?

*shakes head*

and nor should the students lead such an event. But they do.
It's very wrong for a public school.
The simpsons said it best: "God has no place within these four walls"

well, how would you like it if the currency said "there is no god"?

that would be the same as printing it with "in god we trust" just the other extreme.

No, but Christianity and Buddhism do have the same basic rules.. most religions are pretty similar. Be a good person, don't kill people, etc. I don't follow all those rules the church imposes, and I also don't really follow half the Bible, considering it was changed over time and translation.

I think the movie Dogma had it pretty right on. The basic idea.

Eeh, getting off on a tangent.


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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

This isn't a valid excuse to fuel your argument. It's the same country.

Most people can't see beyond their own benefits. That's the problem; you only care if it affects you. That's why these constitutional issues haven't been changed. That's why the money has 'in god we trust'. It is simply because the majority of americans aren't affected by it, so they don't care. The majority would care about 'there is no god'. Fuck practising what you preach, eh? http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif

? Christianity can't be taught you mean?

No, kids are being taught that it's not right to pray in school... in fact, the Bible Club and FCA were almost removed from my high school because people were so intolerant of having religion anywhere near school. It's ridiculous. "How dare you try to be Christian at school" is basically how it's perceived at times.

And as far as praying at football games and such, it's not like it was only Christian prayer being said... many times, we would have a Muslim student or Jewish student recite a prayer as well. But like I said, I come from a tolerant town..

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

You're right, but doesn't that make you consider how much of an effect something like this truly has on people? As you said yourself, things like this don't affect many people one way or the other. Why waste time fighting for something 9 out of 10 people don't care about? And you can't just answer "Because it's right," because in this case, what's "right" would be considered relative.