Atheists take offence to the concept that these people aren't responsible for their actions. JESUS DOESN't GET YOU THERE SAFE. YOU DO BY DRIVING RESPONSIBLY.

I really hate that. Fucking take responsibility for your actions.

But you don't have to. Freedom of choice.

Please don't make this a debate about religious principles.

Saying "If atheist don't want to pray, then don't pray" is the same as saying "If you want to pray, then pray"... I don't see it as pompous.

they can pray all they want to. just don't do it over the loudspeaker.

as for the players leading each other in prayer, they have the complete freedom to, in my mind, as long as it isn't the coach's idea. there's peer pressure involved, but there's nothing the government can do about that, or should do about it.

no one's forcing them not to, we (well i) just don't think they need a government-funded loudspeaker for god to hear them.

------------------
And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command.
So we shall flow a river forth to thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
In nomine patri, et fili, et spiritu sancti.
http://www.avalon.nf.ca/~rosemd/we3.jpg

Hehe, we missed you around here...

It isn't though. I'm saying that it is offensive because it basically says "Do whatever the fuck you want, it's god's will anyway'. I am personally offended by that attitude, especially preached at me. It is, in all respects, and endorsement of hedonism.

Thanking God for the safety of the players is not refusing to take responsibility. If someone gets hurt, we know it was for a reason, and not necessarily "becuase that's what God wanted"... we don't walk around life as mindless drones. Well, not all of us.

being white isn't a choice. being a christian is. don't be such a racist.

Wow... you could've fooled me http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/rolleyes.gif

I do see your point about the loudspeaker. The thing is... it goes farther than that sometimes, and people start talking like kypper and say that prayer shouldn't be allowed PERIOD. Then it starts infringing on the majority's rights. I'm not making an assumption either, it happens. It's just a big pendulum... it doesn't stay in the middle, there's always somebody who's going to push it the other way.

There are extremes on both sides is what I'm trying to say, I think.

------------------
Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

well, atheists won't pray, of course. but they have the right not to be part of a prayer service in a government-appropriated institution.

praying over a loudspeaker to all the students and saying "if the atheists don't want to pray, then they don't have to" is disrespectful, and i consider it rather pompous.

Hehe...

I say they shouldn't be allowed because it never gets left there. I would love for a perfect world in which religious people can supress their desire to 'spread the love' and just pray to themselves. I would think that fine in schools. But it won't fucking happen.

Well I'm personally offended by the fact that you think I don't take responsibility for my actions.

How is it pompous to say "If you don't want to participate, then you don't have to"? (seriously, I don't get it)

If you don't want to read this post, you don't have to...

you're a bitch.
you're a bitch
you're a bitch

see my point? http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/tongue.gif (you're not btw, I was just making a point)

it's rude and it doesn't respect the beliefs of others.

yeah, and disallowing all forms of religion in school is intolerant to my beliefs. If I want to read the Bible in a group of Christians before class and call it a club and put up posters inviting people to join, I should be allowed to. It's not harming anyone, nor am I forcing people to go. People can form Atheist clubs for all I care, it's their choice and it's not school funded, so bam, there ya go.

you had me until the posters. NO ENDORSEMENT OF RELIGION IN A GOVERNMENT INSTITUTION. Sheesh.

I kinda see your point, but not really. That would be like if the prayer went like this:

"Atheists, you don't have to pray if you don't want to."

"God, thank you (insert what I said earlier), and God help those poor souls that don't believe in you, for they will go to hell and burn in eternal fire. Amen."

Nooo. it doesn't go like that. Besides... even if they DID say that, why would you be offended, you don't believe in that?

Jews think Christians are going to hell because they think Jesus is the Messiah... but I don't take offense to that. That's what they believe. Big deal.

Seriously, I don't see it.

Funny... I've heard exactly that prayer withou the 'atheist disclaimer'.

The school isn't endorsing anything. The students put up the posters, the same way they put up those stupid "VOTE FOR ME FOR CLASS BLAH BLAH BLAH" posters. Anybody can put up a poster endorsing their club, so why not the religious clubs as well?

That's the difference between denominations, yet another reason I don't believe in church. No one has the right to say who's going to hell except God. Anyone that adds that in a prayer is retarded.

which is why i call you selfish and pompous.

that's the perfect world? sheesh, i always would've thought it was free of violence or predjudice or something.

so let me get this straight: religious people actually can't refrain from praying and "spreading" their ideology at inappropriate times, they just kind of do so spontaniously? that would explain alot.

Fine, don't explain yourself, I'll never know... i wasn't asking to be an ass, I was asking to find out what the hell you're talking about, because I'm not seeing it.

Because your fundamental rights and constitutions, the original ones, state that religion and state should be separate. They don't state that about politics. Simple as that.