In a government institution at a gathering that is not religiously based.

I am, however, all for the use of school building for voluntary church services.

Still government resources though, directed on school property.
my argument IS less solid though.

Who said listening was the same thing as participating? If a Jew said a prayer in Hebrew over the loudspeaker, I wouldn't be offended, nor would I feel that Judaism was getting forced on me.

being led in prayer in school is just as insulting to an atheist or agnostic's beliefs as telling a christian that they're wrong for believing in god.

What would our laws be like if it only catered to the majority of the people living here? Isn't it the government's responsibility to protect everyone, even the weakest among us?

Some people would. I certainly would. It should be a private thing. Allowing that to be broadcast to every student, is more or less an endoresment.

I understand the whole point of being tolerant to those who have no religion.. that's great. But I say that if someone wants to lead a prayer, no matter the religion, why not let them? Who is it hurting? Are atheists REALLY that offended by having someone pray over a loudspeaker?

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

not more or less. It IS an endorsement, and many public prayers are directed into luring people into religion.

No. We're just making sure our religious freedom isn't threatened/

Pardon me, but that's bullshit. If someone of another religion wanted to pray over a loudspeaker at school, I would in no way feel like they were calling me "wrong" for believing in the Judeo-Christian God. And if you get offended that easily... jeez.

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

Um, no... if a majority of the people present are Christian, and they want to pray together, why not let them? It's not hurting anyone. Saying a prayer over a loudspeaker is not saying "You're wrong for not believing in God", nor is it an "advertisement" for Christianity... you're reaching with that one.

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

but of course you wouldn't! The problem is that you are comparing a separate religion, still believing in a Yahweh/Allah derivative, to the absence of a god completely! THEY ARE VERY DIFFERENT. You would take more offence to 'there is no god' than to 'there is a different god'. That is why we are offended; we're the devil's minority.

Ok, fine... so if atheists don't pray, then don't pray.

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

but for you, it's ok for any religious person to get on there and pray, but not ok for a non-religious person to get on there and say "there is no god, there is only science. jesus never existed." they're just stating their religious beliefs, like any other person you'd allow on there.

i think you're a hipocrite.

Then what the hell is it?

If one group gets to do it, then every other group should, or else it's the school endorsing it. If a christian can get over the loudspeaker and lead a prayer, then so can a jew, and a muslim. An athiest should be allowed to go to the loudspeaker and say "I don't believe in God, but have a great game guys", or something.

I'm sorry, but preaching the wonders of Jesus, and how we should all bow to jesus, and pray for our souls, and pray for your dog's soul, and pray for your penis, and pray for the dude down the street, and give to the church (never forget that one... god forbid the absense of money might occur)... that sure as hell is fucking advertising.

I don't take offense to "There is no God", because the Bible teaches tolerance of everyone, no matter what they believe. If someone wants to believe that, fine... If someone tells me that, sure, I'll get offended by that just as much as someone would if I were to say "You're going to hell because you don't believe in God" which is why I don't say that to people... it's two different things.


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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

i am. religious freedom guarantees me the right not to have to listen to that via a government-endorsed platform, and having that right infringed makes me angry.

Yes, that's fine. But not having someone lead it over the loudspeaker. That's not "just letting whoever wants to pray, pray." That's encouraging EVERYONE to get up and pray.

I'm only human. *shrug* Sure it's hard for me to see these things, I admit that. Which is why I like debating these things, to see other peoples' points of view... I could just be totally intolerant and not participate at all. But I do see the other side of this arguement, and it makes sense to me. But really, if I were atheist, I can't see myself getting mad over people praying in school, just the same as I cant see myself telling someone they're wrong for not saying the Pledge or for participating in the prayer.


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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

it must be nice being part of a pompous, selfish majority.

BUT OTHERS DO, AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

It's just people praying in a group... I don't know what else to call it, but it's not an advertisement... people don't do it with the intention of gathering people to their side.

YES YES dammit, I've been trying to say that... but accourding to the laws made pertaining to prayer in school, that's not allowed. Schools that DID allow students of all religions to lead a prayer or a moment of silence or whatever, they're not allowed to do that anymore, because of that law.



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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

Sup, Whitey?

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Bitchis Pleasum, dontis makum meis getis allum medievalum onus youris assum.
http://www.topthat.net/DWT/Photos/MT002.jpg

The only prayer said at football games are generally "Thank you for getting us here safe, keep the players safe, keep us safe on the way back, thank you, amen"...

As for asking for money, that's why i don't go to church anymore. I understand giving money if it's going to a charity of some kind, but when churches ask for money so they can "beautify the lawn", that's just wrong.


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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

Sup, self righteous, skin-tone obsessed, pompous, minority crying, racist darky.

But what of this tolerance that everyone speaks of? If people of different religions want to pray at football games, is forcing them not to not intolerant?