there you go with sweeping assumptions again.

As I said before, maybe I grew up in a more tolerant place than you did.


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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

so you wouldn't care that you live in a nation that actively endorses a religion which you don't believe?

*shakes head*

and nor should the students lead such an event. But they do.
It's very wrong for a public school.
The simpsons said it best: "God has no place within these four walls"

well, how would you like it if the currency said "there is no god"?

that would be the same as printing it with "in god we trust" just the other extreme.

No, but Christianity and Buddhism do have the same basic rules.. most religions are pretty similar. Be a good person, don't kill people, etc. I don't follow all those rules the church imposes, and I also don't really follow half the Bible, considering it was changed over time and translation.

I think the movie Dogma had it pretty right on. The basic idea.

Eeh, getting off on a tangent.


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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

This isn't a valid excuse to fuel your argument. It's the same country.

Most people can't see beyond their own benefits. That's the problem; you only care if it affects you. That's why these constitutional issues haven't been changed. That's why the money has 'in god we trust'. It is simply because the majority of americans aren't affected by it, so they don't care. The majority would care about 'there is no god'. Fuck practising what you preach, eh? http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif

? Christianity can't be taught you mean?

No, kids are being taught that it's not right to pray in school... in fact, the Bible Club and FCA were almost removed from my high school because people were so intolerant of having religion anywhere near school. It's ridiculous. "How dare you try to be Christian at school" is basically how it's perceived at times.

And as far as praying at football games and such, it's not like it was only Christian prayer being said... many times, we would have a Muslim student or Jewish student recite a prayer as well. But like I said, I come from a tolerant town..

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

You're right, but doesn't that make you consider how much of an effect something like this truly has on people? As you said yourself, things like this don't affect many people one way or the other. Why waste time fighting for something 9 out of 10 people don't care about? And you can't just answer "Because it's right," because in this case, what's "right" would be considered relative.

Just because someone gets on the loudspeaker and says a prayer doesn't mean it's state endorsed. No one's forcing the entire school to pray. You're not going to get a bad grade if you don't pray. And back to the ridiculing thing, I can't relate to that...

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

Well, then those people are idiots. Bible Clubs are clearly fine, because it's not anything that's mandated by the State. The whole point of this argument isn't beliefs, it's what is clearly allowed or not allowed under the law.

the government has the responsibility of protecting the minority's rights?

Exactly. The prayers at our football games were led by the students, not faculty. But it was stopped anyway.

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

Perhaps, but unfortunately, nothing appears to get done unless you go to the extreme. Perhaps eliminating god from all the legitimate documents that were illegally inserted in the first place would prevent the current bedding of church and state that Bush seems to be fuelling. I sure as fucking hell wouldn't want my tax dollars going to religions to serve the public while peddling their beliefs. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/tongue.gif

So you're saying that when we have that "Prayer Around the Flagpole" event, that is nothing but students, that's wrong??

So you're saying that if a Muslim student prayed in school (they're required to pray so many times during the day), that'd be wrong too?

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

True enough...


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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

How many politicians do you think are going to use this as their primary platform and get re/elected because of it?

What you've said doesn't refute my statement at all; in fact, it fuels it further.

Then they can do it just off of school property. It is considered public school for a reason, and unfortunately, once religion is allowed in, even in that minute amount, it compounds. The problem with religion is that you give them an inch and they take a mile. I agree that the students probably should be allowed to do that during the day for themselves, however it NEVER stops there, and so I think it should be completely banned.

How is that not a valid excuse? I grew up in an environment that was obviously more tolerant to these things than the other people here... pardon me for not being introduced to these things in the same way as others.

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

Fine, I'm done.

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

Let see, it's a prayer, led by school faculty who is paid by the government, during school hours. That sounds pretty state endorsed to me.

a public school is a government instutution.

a school faculty member is a government official.

the church and state are to be explicitly separate.

besides, why is it all right for someone to lead a prayer over the loudspeaker, when i'm sure everyone would consider it wrong for them to say "hey, there is no god, and if you believe in one, you're wrong" over the same loudspeaker in a school. i mean, the religious kids don't have to listen.

Students were saying it.

But the school was allowing government resources to be utilized during government-paid hours for teaching to endorse religion. Sorry... still state endorsed.

That really isn't a good arguement. Prayers don't involved anyone saying "If you don't believe in God, you're wrong." So saying "If you believe in God, you're wrong" really isnt the same thing.

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif

Over the loudspeakers? That's ridiculous. You're forcing the entire school to participate. You can't "not listen" to something being broadcast over the loudspeakers.

No, it was a football game, after school hours.

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Originally posted by Irrelevant:
EAT A BAG OF FUCK, HOMOLOVER.

http://216.40.201.38/contrib/ruinkai/screama.gif