Delta (I only read half this read), and anyone:

When was the last time you LIKED being insulted?


Say I'm sitting on the playground and someone comes up to me and goes "FAG! You're stupid!" or something to that effect... am I going to like that?

It's a simple question of right and wrong treatment of people different than you.

And I'm willing to bet that few kids are actually going to watch this...

I was disturbed more at the fact that at such a young age, those connections between "gay", "fag" and "bad" are already being made. My point- is that at young ages, kids begin to get opinions about things... it doesn't matter if they really understand the issues or not. This is why I believe teaching about cultural as well as sexual diversity at a young age is a good thing.

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http://www.toolcity.net/~burt/images/pimp3a.jpg
My anti-drug is non-consensual sex with minors.
AIM: Mista Saki

It's not just teens. Just look at what crap posts permeate throughout this board. The same goes with the word "retard". It's enough to make me scream.

Beamish, come on--this is a (relatively) mature and healthy discussion. What could you possibly accomplish with comments like yours, which are childish and obviously misinformed?

Why don't you grace this thread with some of your incredible intellect? Liberal ninnie.

it's childish to believe that Delta underestimates the abilities of your average child? that's rich. You haven't contributed anything to this discussion, so post or sit this one out, 'k?

Let's put things into context, shall we? You'll find it helps. It's not childish to believe that he underestimates the abilities of a child, but it is childish to resort to name-calling when someone doesn't agree with you. Do you understand?

I love a good non-sequitur--my input on the subject should hardly be necessary to politely ask you to stop being a jerk. Since my opinion is so important to you, I'm on your side to the extent that I think it's a good idea for Nickelodeon to air the program.

um, i responded to you when you said i underestimated children, its at the top of the second page. but you never replied to it, you just said something about a white flag and ignored what i said. if you really want to challenge me on what a 12-year old is capable of then go ahead. you can start by refuting the first post i addressed to you, and until you do that you can go sit in the corner and stew

I think this is called for:

http://www.toolcity.net/~burt/images/allfriends.jpg

It fits the topic and the thread.

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http://www.toolcity.net/~burt/images/pimp3a.jpg
My anti-drug is non-consensual sex with minors.
AIM: Mista Saki

It's not indoctrination in the way that it would be if it were taught in public school's, but still, Nickelodeon is the kids network, and millions will watch the show because parents trust it as a babysitter, or just what their kids 'should be watching.'

definitely.

The point of this TV show is not to tell kids how they should view homosexuality, its telling kids that discrimination is wrong, and homophobia is wrong. If this were on teaching kids of different races to get along, there would be no debate cause its a pretty obvious point that (most) everyone can agree on.
I really don't see how anyone can interpret it as Nickelodeon editorializing to kids. They're just saying that discriminating against gays and children of gays is wrong.

Julian

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how'd this world get so fucking fun, all of a sudden?

are you stupid? that one comment totally contradicts everything you have said in this thread. if you can say you're tired of the Christian religion, I can say I'm tired of gay people. what's the difference?

yeah, but it IS unusual to have same-sex parents.

You quoted and commented on the first of 70+ replies. Read more.

I'm going to skip all of the delicate picking apart of points here and get right down to the common sensibility of this whole thing.

Is it wrong to teach kids about racial tolerance? Is it wrong to teach them about tolerance of handicapped individuals? Is it wrong to teach them about the dynamics of divorced families? Then why the hell is it wrong to teach them about same sex parenting?

The only argument people have in stating that it's pro-homosexual (whatever that means), is that it supports the rights of homosexuals. Frankly, it pisses me off to be reminded that the whole debate on whether or not people have control over their sexual orientation isn't over for some people. There are people in the world who are homosexual, just plain are, just like there are people who are black or disabled or anything else that they can't change, and their simple human rights need to be fought for and protected by themselves and supporters of tolerance. Some of these homosexuals are going to want to have children, okay? That's just the way it is. And it's not about sex, it's about kids being raised by two parents of the same sex. Get over it.

that ain't my style

we know its a common sensibility, and thats why not a single one of the last 70 posts have had anything to say negatively about gays or same sex parenting

You have to ask yourself if tolerance is something that should be taught. Do we teach children to be tolerant of Palestinian ethical values that allow them to be suicide bombers ? I would hope not. Everyone has a right to their own beliefs but some things are just wrong and should not be tolerated.

We come back to schooling and education through the media. Who decides what we should be tolerant of ?

Just because being tolerent of homosexuals is morally right to some people doesn't mean it is something to be taught. Otherwise its indoctrination. Ethics is not like mathematics.



[This message has been edited by slunky_munky (edited 06-18-2002).]

i don't see why you'd automatically assume that this is indoctrination...it doesn't seem like we really know enough about how this program is going to treat the subject matter to call it indoctrination. in fact, after all those emails, i bet nickelodeon will try to be pretty careful not to be too positive or too negative. they seem to want (and it appears to be in their best interest) to show both sides. and i have seen a few "nick news" episodes before--they've won some awards for impartiality in journalism and educational programming, i think--and they tend to draw no conclusions on their subjects. i expect it will be pretty tasteful.

but my expectations aside...how does profiling kids and adults from same-sex families and profiling kids and adults who disagree with it promote anything but discussion? how is it indoctrination?

You can't form a grasp of the issue until you understand the foundations uponwhich the concept is based.

Is this program part of a series profiling sexuality in general ? If not it is jumping the gun, seeking controversy, being brave, call it what you will, it is NOT doing kids a service like it and its supporters believe.

so do you disagree with childrens programs like "clifford the big red dog" shown on PBS, which teaches kids to share and be nice to animals and things????

Seems like this is along the same line

If it was a show telling kids not to taunt children of other races, NO ONE would object to its airing, yet b/c its about people not taunting kids of homosexuals, AAW SHUCKS. CALL THE FAGS WHAT THEY ARE http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/rolleyes.gif



[This message has been edited by So very sad about me (edited 06-18-2002).]

Teaching kids to be 'nice to animals and things' is a long ways from having them swallow the liberal hook of an issue that is far more complex. Accepting sexuality that is different from the mainstream is a whole other machine aside from teaching basic human kindness. It would be nice if you could compare the two, but until homophobia dies, you cannot. Opinions will be much more strong and divisive on such an issue as long as homophobia still exists, regardless of conditioning.

I don't see why accepting people regardless of a sexual preference isn't "basic human kindness", though.

Um. I shouldn't post here, this is way too far in for anymore entries.

Yeah, Wayne'll close it because he's not involved in it.

You've been using phrases like "liberal hook," "suppression of opinion," and "conditioning programs." With a rhetoric like that you're coming off defensive, paranoid and judgmental of a show we have yet to see. It seems you're treating the homosexuality issue as a political institution moreso than a social issue, which I believe isn't the best way to approach the topic. I've seen Nickelodeon run similar specials about racial tolerance, AIDS, etc. and they all have been rather innnocuous. I think the program will attempt to protect children from being slandered for having gay parents or encourage the abolishment of using the hateful word "fag" in schoolyards rather than promote any kind of political agenda. I don't know how you're so easily able to discern discussion from indoctrination. Hopefully Nickelodeon will represent all views on the issue.

<3 <3 <3

Here here.