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-   Smashing Pumpkins/Billy Corgan Discussion (http://forums.netphoria.org/forumdisplay.php?f=6)
-   -   What if Netphoria vs. Sadmachines, but Weezer? (http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=187022)

FlamingGlobes 12-17-2018 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaBelle (Post 4489352)
Lol of course you'd say that.

And of course you identify with it, it's incelcore at it's finest.

Judging something from 1996 through the lens of 2018 is a fruitless endeavor. Just sayin'.

LaBelle 12-17-2018 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingGlobes (Post 4489366)
Judging something from 1996 through the lens of 2018 is a fruitless endeavor. Just sayin'.

I'm pretty sure a lot of people called this band out for these reasons many times over in the past. I've seen/heard it a bunch over the years.

So your argument holds no water.

pale_princess 12-17-2018 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. (Post 4489253)
i'm gonna put this on my "to watch" list now

fun fact: conor oberst has a new song in this movie, in case anyone cares about conor oberst in 2018 (i do.)

you'll love it!!!

Rose Byrne, Chris O'Dowd & Ethan Hawke are all so charming in it.

johncg 12-17-2018 01:25 PM

Artists tend to be messed up people with messed up thoughts. And doing their art is much healthier than acting out those thoughts. I think of Eminem. I’d rather him be a psycho killer behind a mic than in real life. If I didn’t have my music as an outlet I’d probably have killed someone by now...Ani Difranco and Eddie Veddar have literally said the same.

Let artists art. If it makes you uncomfortable, just move on.

johncg 12-17-2018 01:31 PM

(By the way, I’m totally down with critiquing things through a feminist lens...so I hear the criticisms of Pinkerton loud and clear. But part of third wave feminism is the realization that one ought to have the freedom to choose what’s empowering for them. That’s why we stopped being anti-porn as feminists a long time ago and also have come to accept that there is room in feminism for being a housewife or having a very stereotypical hetero relationship or BDSM, etc etc. Yes, all of those things can be degrading in some contexts. But they can also be empowering depending on the person and the situation.)

LaBelle 12-17-2018 01:39 PM

People just like to get offended when something they like gets called out as being misogynistic because they think it reflects poorly on them as people.

Newsflash, it doesn't have to, you can even continue to enjoy something while recognizing how some aspects of it are shitty or don't hold up over time.

pale_princess 12-17-2018 01:40 PM

Yeah I didn't really want this thread to derail into Weezer stuff, just more wanted us to all have a laugh at ourselves. Rivers' fetishizing of young women/teenage girls of Asian descent is well-documented and gross.

But honestly the parallels of post-Pinkerton Weezer & post-Y2K SP and its fanbases are pretty hilarious. Like, the disconnect from songs like Only In Dreams and Starla to butt-rock jokes like Hash Pipe and Tarantula!

johncg 12-17-2018 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaBelle (Post 4489375)
People just like to get offended when something they like gets called out as being misogynistic because they think it reflects poorly on them as people.

Newsflash, it doesn't have to, you can even continue to enjoy something while recognizing how some aspects of it are shitty or don't hold up over time.

Nailed it.

Same thing when you point out racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.

Mals Marola 12-17-2018 02:25 PM

I think the main thing that ever makes me "raise a brow" to lyrics or whatever is when it's ambiguous as to whether the artist himself even realizes the uh, questionable nature of what they're singing. Like with Em it was pretty obvious he was fucking with people; shit like the Weezer song & that fuckin' Guns & Roses tune where he just casually throws out the n word, not so much

on the other hand, so long as it doesn't seep out into actual real life behavior, who cares

MonumentsRocks 12-17-2018 02:28 PM

The fact that this thread has devolved into what it has become demonstrates why the SNL skit funny in the first place.

I'm glad I never got into Weezer, I think any enjoyment I'd get from their music wouldn't be offset by worrying about when there music started sucking, if it ever sucked, if it ever didnt suck etc. I could say the same about SP but alas it's too late now.

Mals Marola 12-17-2018 02:30 PM

I think people just like demonstrating why they're morally superior to 1996 River Comeaux

redbreegull 12-17-2018 02:51 PM

I think Weezer lyrics from Blue/Pinkterton (never listened further) are intentionally cringey and creepy, and it just hasn't aged so well in relation to how our society has changed. It's almost like a Woody Allen effect where the subject matter at the time is like WOW LOOK AT THIS SO EDGY AND HONEST (like fuzzy's POV) but fast forward a few decades and it's more obvious that it's not just abstract commentary on an uncomfortable subject, but in fact is posing as that while underneath there is actual real creepiness and expression of the artist's creepy attitudes and inappropriate behaviors.

LaBelle hit the nail on the head though– people get upset when others point shit like this out because they see it as an indictment against themselves. It's just kind of dumb and a really uncritical way to approach art, from my perspective.

redbreegull 12-17-2018 02:58 PM

speaking of Weezer, here's a tangentially related anecdote. I have this friend who has been in musical stagnation since like 10th grade and he always says the dumbest shit. I've made fun of him previously, this is the guy who said to me this year, "Woah. Dude. Did you know that Joy Division and New Order are like... the same band?"

I had on Pinkerton in my car maybe two years ago and he asked, "What the fuck is this? It sounds like some shitty band pretending to be Weezer."

Mals Marola 12-17-2018 03:00 PM

did he also fill you in on the joys of expired Teenage Mutant food products?

FlamingGlobes 12-17-2018 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaBelle (Post 4489368)
I'm pretty sure a lot of people called this band out for these reasons many times over in the past. I've seen/heard it a bunch over the years.

So your argument holds no water.

It's not much of an argument? More of just an observation/opinion. There's this really lazy trend of taking things from the past out back and shooting them because they aren't woke enough by today's metric. Rarely is the proper context even taken into consideration and at the end of the day, all it does is whitewash.

You're entitled to feel your feelings about the lyrical subject matter, but of Weezer's sins, the stuff on Pinkerton ranks pretty damn low.

FlamingGlobes 12-17-2018 06:04 PM

I dunno. I mean, is it really fair to dismiss Weezer entirely just because of some problematic lyrics from years back when we should really be dismissing them for covering Toto and sounding like a(n even more) neutered version of Twenty One Pilots these days?

Mals Marola 12-17-2018 07:06 PM

to this day i still don't think i've consciously heard a twenty one pilots song

houseofglass11 12-17-2018 07:08 PM

consider yourself lucky and continue to live blissfully, my friend.

Mals Marola 12-17-2018 07:08 PM

if i do it'll be a god damn miracle cos both my friend & girlfriend actively own their album & t-shirts

Shallowed 12-17-2018 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaBelle (Post 4489375)
People just like to get offended when something they like gets called out as being misogynistic because they think it reflects poorly on them as people.

Newsflash, it doesn't have to, you can even continue to enjoy something while recognizing how some aspects of it are shitty or don't hold up over time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbreegull (Post 4489402)
LaBelle hit the nail on the head though– people get upset when others point shit like this out because they see it as an indictment against themselves. It's just kind of dumb and a really uncritical way to approach art, from my perspective.

This is called the Angry Jack Effect


FoolofaTook 12-17-2018 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingGlobes (Post 4489431)
There's this really lazy trend of taking things from the past out back and shooting them because they aren't woke enough by today's metric. Rarely is the proper context even taken into consideration and at the end of the day, all it does is whitewash.

I disagree. The past and history are just fictions. As we progress, we should constantly be challenging past assumptions and prejudices, finding more and more wrong shit, more ways in which we have failed.

Wrong is wrong, whether in the stone or space age, whether the wrongdoer is aware of it or not.


I HAVE SPOKEN.

LaBelle 12-17-2018 07:37 PM

actually nvm, I don't mean to further derail this thread.

redbreegull 12-17-2018 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingGlobes (Post 4489435)
I dunno. I mean, is it really fair to dismiss Weezer entirely just because of some problematic lyrics from years back when we should really be dismissing them for covering Toto and sounding like a(n even more) neutered version of Twenty One Pilots these days?

I think part of her point though was that you don't have to dismiss art or an artist because of "problematic" elements (sorry, I hate this use of this word but it applies here), and it's fine to recognize elements which are objectionable and still enjoy the music.

fuzzyroes 12-17-2018 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaBelle (Post 4489352)
Lol of course you'd say that.

And of course you identify with it, it's incelcore at it's finest.

That's the thing. When I listen to a song like "No One Else" I don't think it glorifies misogyny at all. It's more of an anthem regarding Rivers' pathetic insecurity. They're whole shtick is being a "nerd-rock" band, so they have to come from a mindset of a nerd and I think they make that rather obvious. If anything a song like No One Else really makes it obvious why misogyny ISN'T cool.

fuzzyroes 12-17-2018 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mals Marola (Post 4489314)
i don't really listen to Weezer much but Green Album was good, peeps can fuck off w/ this "nothing was good post-Pinkerton" shit

There's been a lot of great music littered across even they're shittiest of albums. Weezer still always manages to be fun and quirky and you have to appreciate them for that.


johncg 12-17-2018 09:34 PM

I dunno. I’ll still take post-MACHINA Billy over post-Green Album Weezer. At least Billy is trying to be on the cutting edge. Rivers just settled into the 90’s alt equivalent of butt rock.

FoolofaTook 12-17-2018 09:45 PM

you guys know you could always just listen to neither

?

johncg 12-17-2018 09:56 PM

It’s like listening to Rush Limbaugh or Alex Jones. The sociological train wreck is fascinating.

fuzzyroes 12-17-2018 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johncg (Post 4489477)
I dunno. I’ll still take post-MACHINA Billy over post-Green Album Weezer. At least Billy is trying to be on the cutting edge.

I STRONGLY disagree.

For example, there's nothing close to the quality of a track like this on the new Pumpkins album


houseofglass11 12-17-2018 10:09 PM

This track was as good as anything on the 1st two albums:


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