if billy was going for perfection (which he was) i can imagine it could happen and take that long. do you play guitar at all? might be easier to understand after some experience playing, but with the pull offs getting it *exact* on every note in the exact right timing would take a bit of work. it's easy to slightly mute a string at any point which ruins the constant sound that was finally captured. playing it on a keyboard would be a lot easier, but with guitar strings the tone can change so much with the pressure of your finger on the string, the exact placement on the fret board, the strength of the pull-off notes to match the picked notes.

he could do a almost good enough job in one take without thinking, he would do that easily at every rehearsal and live show. but then he probably listened back to it and heard single notes that sounded louder or softer than others, or with more attack, or not with full sustained tone, and wanted to get it perfect.

he could have easily played it 4 or 5 times, then go into the control room to play it back on the good speakers, analyse how it sounds with a few listens, hear back to back comparisons a few times, then go back in and try again for a few more takes. then trial and error of that process to see what sounds the best on tape to get the ideal sound he had in his head.

lol

I don't agree with the poster suggesting the playing of the intro played a big part.
I can't remember where I read/heard it now—I think maybe it was the soundopinions audio interview with Butch Vig—but Butch goes into detail about that process and from what I can remember, Butch was talking about all the time they spent trying different amps, getting the compression just right, etc. ...even to the extent of leaving the studio to try other setups (in storage? the instrument store? I forget.) So it was really the engineering that took so long.

Of course, that's still really obsessive for 15 seconds of clean guitar sound. In hindsight, though, it makes sense. It's an iconic intro for one of the most successful, well-known songs Billy ever did. I guarantee you Today ended up being much bigger than even those two were hoping.

I mean it's still silly. Even if Corgan and Vig are hyper-focused on the tone after 12 hours, 99% of people will hear it and think 'oh, that's a clean guitar'

or not even that, they'll think 'oh, that's a catchy riff'

I mean i'm a crazy nerd and just listen to live boots. The most iconic studio SD moment for me is the slight phaser on the Cherub Rock intro

I think I'm that poster, but I made no suggestions of my own about it, all I did was quote Butch Vig.

Butch Vig said, "the intro for Today took a LOT of takes to get the perfect sound and feel". That sounds to me like he's making a point about the number of times Billy had to retry it.

I meant Trev just a couple of posts above me, not you.
Anyway, yes, Billy apparently took a lot of takes. And that could mean 30 minutes at most due to trying different things and discussing it. There's not enough variations of ways to try it that there's anything in hour 2 Billy would be doing that could be different than hour 1, much less hour 12.

Since I'd heard straight from the source that most of that time was spent on equipment setup, I figured I'd share.

Ah, ok.

this is great, thanks.

That first Billy quote is exactly my problem with a lot of hardcore metal I've heard. After four minutes of relentless screaming, I just sort of shrug at it because it starts to feel manufactured and rote. Meanwhile, after the breakdown in TOASEarth when the heavy comes back in...it gets my blood boiling every time. That song is pretty relentless too, but there are still rises and falls in intensity, and the falls seem consciously set up to make the heavy moments feel even heavier. ...not that dynamics are any guarantee; a song still needs to be a good song to have impact.

As for Jimmy's quote, I'd always wondered about that sort of thing. Even if I was good enough to play his Geek USA part note-for-note, it would be pointless because even Jimmy doesn't devote that much time and mental effort into reproducing his studio takes live.

from adore era recordings: "There are three songs that D'arcy really likes that probably won't make the album. She thinks I'm a fucking idiot for not putting them out.""


anyone know which songs these are?

re:JC

A lot of times I've heard him speak, he mentions trying to be faithful to his fills that are 'signature', that are ones he hears back on the radio and wants to copy every time he plays the song, because they're integral to the song, or at least what casual fans perceive as the song*


* I'm not sure if I've ranted about this on here before, but jesus christ, the number of fans that, like, want to hear 1979, but don't start cheering until the guitar lick starts, even though JC's been doing the sig drum beat for a while....it's sad

You think there's no overdubs on Mayonaise?

OK

yeah, and they will think that because corg worked hard to get it right. producing isn't really about amazing a layman who will miss the nuance, it's about not getting him distracted while the important stuff is playing. it's an art. and sometimes you labour over a song intros, even if the work is not gonna be apparent to some guy on a netphoria forum.

ur dad labored hard last night

You've never recorded a record have you? When you seek perfection it takes a lot of tiny elements to get that perfect take, compounded by the complete lack of digital editing in 92/93. It's entirely feasible he spent 2 hrs just playing the thing.

the drums. the original statement was that jimmy did it in "one take" meaning they didn't splice different takes together, and they didn't overdub drum tracks.

you got something to say to that, soniclovenoise?

Not sure how to respond if his standards are that low.

disappointed this question hasn't been answer yet

but i think we all know who could get us there

sorry guys, i'm still learning the language

also sorry, i'm fuzzy roasters

what are your thoughts on the songs?

i remember reading somewhere that darcy liked waiting, so maybe that one.

but other than that i can only make random guesses on good songs left off. maybe lmgtwty? cash car star? blissed and gone?

my bets would be on Waiting, Let Me Give the World & i guess Blissed and Gone

the cyber metal epic of cash car star doesn't get your dander up?

not really

was way better on Machina 2

there are a bunch of great outtakes from the Adore era but those 3 i mentioned above are the only ones i can think of someone calling Corgo "fucking crazy" for leaving out

what about once in a while and czarina, fool?

no

satur9