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-   -   Why can't good songwriters continue to write good songs through their 40's and on? (http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=183224)

fuzzyroes 10-28-2015 08:13 PM

Why can't good songwriters continue to write good songs through their 40's and on?
 
It seems like once every good songwriter reaches about their mid 40's and on that they simply can't write a good song anymore. The examples are seemingly endless and it's a true rarity to find an odd exception to this rule.

So what is the deal? Do these guys get old and just stop caring about music? All of the older people I know in my life still love music so that can't be it. Is it just that these guys get pushed too hard and they burn out?

slunken 10-28-2015 08:34 PM

you're talking about singer/songwriters and not songwriters.

time to start checking those song credits.

myosis 10-28-2015 08:52 PM

there is sometimes a comeback of talent at 60 years of age

fuzzyroes 10-28-2015 08:54 PM

Touche, yes, singer songwriters. I suppose theres a bunch of old ass guys writing hits for pop artists and shit

The Omega Concern 10-28-2015 08:56 PM

Robert Plant has never really lost it.

Elphenor 10-28-2015 09:20 PM

Great thread, Fuzzyroes. My answer is going to have to be The Smashing Pumpkins

slunken 10-28-2015 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Omega Concern (Post 4230402)
Robert Plant has never really lost it.

lmao

noyen 10-28-2015 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes (Post 4230347)
It seems like once every good songwriter reaches about their mid 40's and on that they simply can't write a good song anymore. The examples are seemingly endless and it's a true rarity to find an odd exception to this rule.

So what is the deal? Do these guys get old and just stop caring about music? All of the older people I know in my life still love music so that can't be it. Is it just that these guys get pushed too hard and they burn out?

who the fuck are you talking about? mike ness? please start seemingly endless list.

redbreegull 10-28-2015 11:21 PM

Neil Young is the obvious exception that comes to mind. he puts out bad stuff as well, but every few albums he still manages to hit it out of the park

Trotskilicious 10-28-2015 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slunken (Post 4230377)
you're talking about singer/songwriters and not songwriters.

it's a dumb statement either way

Trotskilicious 10-28-2015 11:42 PM

iirc leonard cohen was in his late fifties when i'm your man came out and early sixties when the future came out

Trotskilicious 10-28-2015 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noyen (Post 4230473)
who the fuck are you talking about? mike ness? please start seemingly endless list.

it's just dumb trolling

Sonic Johnny 10-28-2015 11:51 PM

He's talking about Rivers Cuomo

Trotskilicious 10-28-2015 11:58 PM

michael gira

but fuzzy is scared of swans

Trotskilicious 10-28-2015 11:58 PM

tom waits

Trotskilicious 10-28-2015 11:58 PM

I can't think of any gen xers yet tho

redbreegull 10-29-2015 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious (Post 4230507)
I can't think of any gen xers yet tho

I think these guys all did just burn out. Thom Yorke? Mark Kozelek? Both released stuff that was really good in the 2000s, but not so much in the past five years I guess

Trotskilicious 10-29-2015 12:13 AM

oh jesus are they 40

Trotskilicious 10-29-2015 12:15 AM

other than swans which isn't really relevant to this discussion because that's mostly about sound and not lyrics, i can't really think of anyone old making anything good after like idk 2000 or something

but i don't care about old people because punk rock forever

redbreegull 10-29-2015 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious (Post 4230515)
oh jesus are they 40

both closer to 50 I think.

one of the few astute things b0lly ever said was pointing out (in the 90s) that rock is really a young man's game, and older people for whatever reason are bad at making rock music generally. Singer songwriters, I can think of a fair number who put out good stuff later in their careers. Blues guys don't even get warmed up until they get old according to several iconic bluesmen.

redbreegull 10-29-2015 12:34 AM

well one, I'm thinking of something Buddy Guy said

pavementtune 10-29-2015 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbreegull (Post 4230510)
I think these guys all did just burn out. Thom Yorke? Mark Kozelek? Both released stuff that was really good in the 2000s, but not so much in the past five years I guess

Kozelek released Benji last year - which I'd argue is one of the best albums he ever did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes (Post 4230347)
It seems like once every good songwriter reaches about their mid 40's and on that they simply can't write a good song anymore. The examples are seemingly endless and it's a true rarity to find an odd exception to this rule.

So what is the deal? Do these guys get old and just stop caring about music? All of the older people I know in my life still love music so that can't be it. Is it just that these guys get pushed too hard and they burn out?

it's not a true rarity, no.
the past few years had these albums - so you can't even argue only the prime examples like Leonard Cohen, Neil Young or Bob Dylan "made one good album back then when they got old."

Let England Shake - PJ Harvey age 42
Vulnicura - Björk age 49
50 Words for Snow - Kate Bush age 53
Push the Sky Away - Nick Cave age 56
Bad As me - Tom Waits age 61

vixnix 10-29-2015 12:59 AM

there might be some correlation with singer songwriters coming from uncomfortable backgrounds, getting rich and comfortable, and numbing their still present feelings with endless therapy, consumerism, short lived relationships...and have an audience willing to listen to whatever drivel they produce, so stop really pulling out all the stops to get an audience

maybe that's just crogan

redbreegull 10-29-2015 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pavementtune (Post 4230545)
Kozelek released Benji last year - which I'd argue is one of the best albums he ever did.

it took me a LONG time to come around to Benji. I think I posted over and over about wanting so bad to get it but I just couldn't. I can't reconcile it at all with his pre-2010 material, but it is quite good. one day I was on a bus when I was traveling with my friend in asia and I just had a moment where Carissa came on and I really listened to the lyrics staring out the window and I started crying because it's so real. I'm not sure how to explain it.

but overall I think his songwriting took a dip after Admiral Fell Promises. I will say though that I think he could still put out shit that sounds like earlier SKM and it would be just as good, but he is bored and for himself needs to keep doing something different, and I respect that. I don't respect him getting all crazy and having public spats with people in recent years, or calling that journalist a bitch on stage and asking why she wants to fuck him so bad or whatever. Admittedly, she did harass him and his friends on their home phones and then after the incident she profited off it by writing an article for the Atlantic about what a misogynistic awful pig he is... but yeah, it's still not cool Mark.

The exploding boy 10-29-2015 01:16 AM

It is often true though....i guess it depends what kind of music. But say...when your success was based on teenage angst for example, that fuel doesn't last. You have to find a different fuel. Once you're rich and successful, it gets harder i'm sure. Just the will to prove yourself when you're young for one, that's a powerful creative force and once you've proved yourself....

Musically i just think you're bound to run out of creativity, going around in circles, doing the same stuff you did except not as good, but as a parody of yourself. There's artists who try to get out of their comfort zone and try new stuff and these artists often manage to thrive, those that don't like i said just become a bad copy of their younger selves.

redbreegull 10-29-2015 01:19 AM

yep. I'm not really familiar enough with other mediums of art I guess to say for sure, but it seems that musical artists suffer this decline way worse than people who write books or make films or whatever

pavementtune 10-29-2015 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbreegull (Post 4230553)
one day I was on a bus when I was traveling with my friend in asia and I just had a moment where Carissa came on and I really listened to the lyrics staring out the window and I started crying because it's so real. I'm not sure how to explain it.

I can't explain it either but I had something similar - replace bus with train and Asia with Euro - while listening to Jim Wise.

dreams of glass 10-29-2015 02:00 AM

What about the The Grateful Dead, maan

redbreegull 10-29-2015 02:05 AM

holy shit tom waits is only 61 I thought he was 161

pavementtune 10-29-2015 02:19 AM

he is, he was around 61 when he did the Bad As Me album (which is good in my book.)


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