i wanna know the opinion of people besides those who post on the sp board

well??? do you like it? i think it's pretty catchy. lyrics are lame. sigh. does corgan not have anything relevant to say? i think the great artists are the ones who seem to like. you know. have something relevant to say, even if it's just a love song they can say it in like a not tired-out way and thos elyrics "there's nowhere i could be without you, honestly" just seem... not sincere or something. or stale.

<font color=33FFFF> they could have erupted with an amazing first single, but instead they've opted for something average and bland at best. I don't really dislike it, but it shall be one of the songs on the album that I will repeatedly skip</font>

The song itself is good, but not great. The production is also kinda neat--unfortunately, Pajo/Sweeney haven't reigned in the bombastic overblown Studio Corgan, but there's some really neat, low-in-the-mix stuff going on, especially in the verses, that you'd never have heard in a Pumpkins song.

As far as lyrics, I think Billy never had anything really relevant to say to anybody who wasn't a depressed adolescent/young adult with the Pumpkins and he still doesn't with Zwan. It's kind of sad, too, considering he is intelligent and articulate and says far more interesting things in interviews than he does with his lyrics. That's not to say he can't write good lyrics. He can. But one, he can't write GREAT lyrics, and two, for every song with good lyrics there's at least three with cliched themes and/or silly wordplay that doesn't really add to anything. (This was, strangely, only a post-MCIS phenomenon, although I should say in fairness that it doesn't seem to be present in most Zwan lyrics.)

And ultimately, as far as Corgan's lyrics go, nothing will ever excuse the fucking Machina mystery.

i totally agree with both of you. exactly.
it hasn't made want to buy the album any more or less...

I was quite disappointed when I first heard the song. It's nothing special, nothing original. The first single should have been great and refreshing, but instead it's just a standard pop-rock song. Oh well...

i should mention that i really like how the vocals don't sound pumpkin-like at all. the ********** vocals are awesome.

i wonder how sweeney and pajo feel about playing radio festivals and getting modern rock airplay in a bombastic pop-rock guitar-wankery band since they're total art-indie-rock veterans.

it also seems kinda cool that radio is giving a shit about them too. i thought billy corgan was about as fashionable to the mainstream as billy idol, but i am pleasantly surprised.

Worst song on the album.

it doesn't suck

i haven't listened to any zwan since that first live show that turned up online. i don't remember crap about it but when i heard honestly i enjoyed it quite a bit. for some reason it reminded me of early pumpkins a bit but then of course it is a bit different. i don't know. it made me want to hear the rest of the album though.

Originally posted by rubbersoul
If you turn it up really loud, it sounds awesome.

I don't know...answers to the question are always going to be predictably lazy. And I think the people who have answered have covered all the boring, obvious observations that geeks on the internet will come up with.

I like the lyrics and I think I am no where close to being as smart/creative as anybody in Zwan, so I won't talk shit (but of course I am some sheep who likes the Pumpkins). Nobody really listens to lyrics anyway. As soon as "love" comes up in the song people have found there little thing to criticize. Maybe I just don't find the deeper meanings in indie rock, but who writes quality lyrics these days anyway?

STUART MURDOCH AND BJORK

AND UHHH

jim o'rourke i guess :X just from what i heard :X

i'm not there like a ghooost ship innnn a stooorm *sigh*

The song has got a real pop thing going. It's not a bad song, but it's not the best song either. I could have really done without the cyclone effect on the guitar throughout the whole song. I still like the song.

It's better than just about anything currently on modern-rock radio.

It's a mediocre Billy song, at best.

the swoopy, reverby phaser effect on the guitars really makes me mad. it sounds terrible.

other than that, the song is okay in my book

Its pretty awful. Billy's vocals do sound like the Pumpkins - I can't hear any difference while listening.

The overblown production, which used to work with the pumpkins now just feels, well, overblown, almost self-consciously so.

Jimmy is a mess behind the drum kit. The guy should stop thinking about technique and playing "grooves" and should play what sounds more appropriate for the sound. More than anything, this is what ruins it. His laidback beat should've been replaced by a beat in double time that would have made the song more visceral and not as boring as it is now.

A band can do one of two things - create a great sound or write great songs. Only rarely do these come together, and Zwan has thus far failed on both counts.

it's ok, nothing great

I agree with everything said so far. On the note of lyrics, Honestly is a bad example of what Zwan could accomplish. The "Djali Zwan" songs had more to offer in terms of lyrics. I really like the lyrics for And So I Died... and Girl With the Cruel Face and Pony Express. A lot more meaningful and spiritual than the more pop-oriented Zwan songs. Sucks a lot of those didn't make the cut on Mary Star.

so is bolly just really bad with making tracklistings and picking singles? like i still can't comprehend why he didn't release the age of innocence as a single. or blank page. :noway:

I hate it. Too much pop for my taste. At least For Your Love would be better than Honestly. What happenned to Cast a Stone? it was a good song. To me, endless summer, should have been the first single.

it's a terrible song.

as far as lyrics, 1979 proved that billy could write good non-lame lyrics (at least once in a long while). but he's not been doing it lately.

Originally posted by Mayfuck
The "Djali Zwan" songs had more to offer in terms of lyrics.

This is true. I don't think any of them were incredible, but they're all pretty good.

i still haven't heard it.

like other people said, it's alright. i don't really have feelings on it other than that.

The music is decent, nothing special. It's a safe, radio friendly first single that I expect would turn off old SP Fans (esp. Gish & SD era) who haven't been following Zwan.

I d/l a few Zwan songs and found them to be rather bland & this single cemented my lack of interest in even seeing Zwan when they came to play in T.O. The lyrics to honestly IMO are really poor.

Hopefully like others have said this is one of the weaker songs on the upcoming album.


I believe
I believe
I believe

I believe the love you talk about with me
is it true, do I care
honestly, you can try to wipe the memories aside
but it's you that you erase

'cause there's no place that I could be without you
it's too far to discard the life I once knew
honestly, all the weather storms are bringing
are just a picture of my dreams
'cause when I think of you as mine
and allow myself with time
to lead into the life we want
I feel loved, honestly
I feel loved, this honestly

I believe you mean the best that life can bring
I believe in it all
honestly, you can try
your heart is just as long as mine
is it ours to let go

'cause there's no place that I could be without you
it's too dark to discard the life I once knew
honestly, a single wrong is not enough
to cover up the pain in us
'cause when I think of you as mine
and allow myself with time
to lead into the life we want
I feel loved, honestly
I'll make a joke so you must laugh
I'll break your heart so you must ask
is this the way to get us back
I don't know, honestly
I don't know, this honestly

there's no place that I could be without you
honestly

there's no place that I could be without you
there's no place that I could gleam without you
there's no place that I could dream without you
there's no place that I could be without you
honestly

Ok, so I haven't heard this song in the context of Zwan. Just caught the single on the radio yesterday. My first reaction when the song began was something akin to "Eww". Once I recognised the voice (the unmistakably melodic tones of sandpaper on scabs), it was more like embarassment.

So the music isn't my game. That's one thing, and maybe it'll change with a few listens. But the lyrics... *shakes head* Billy does write good lyrics for the most part. Even the super sappy can't-believe-how-gushy love songs usually have evocative imagery, interesting redundancy, poignant tight syntax - they're poetry.

But this? He really lost me when he started singing about Pop Tarts. But Honestly has stale, trite every-top-5-love-song imagery, and mind-numbing repetition. At least Pop Tarts were interesting.

Originally posted by Stumbleine
Ok, so I haven't heard this song in the context of Zwan. Just caught the single on the radio yesterday. My first reaction when the song began was something akin to "Eww". Once I recognised the voice (the unmistakably melodic tones of sandpaper on scabs), it was more like embarassment.

So the music isn't my game. That's one thing, and maybe it'll change with a few listens. But the lyrics... *shakes head* Billy does write good lyrics for the most part. Even the super sappy can't-believe-how-gushy love songs usually have evocative imagery, interesting redundancy, poignant tight syntax - they're poetry.

But this? He really lost me when he started singing about Pop Tarts. But Honestly has stale, trite every-top-5-love-song imagery, and mind-numbing repetition. At least Pop Tarts were interesting.

<font color="CC33CC">Jesus Christ. How are you? Write me.</font>

I finally heard this song on the radio the other day. It's not bad. The words suck, but the music is pretty good.

you know, there are some people who have the power to post on the SP board <i>and</i> this one. I'm one of those.

I think it's bland and not even catchy.

<font color="aquamarine">Part of me wants to say "I expected better," but then again, it's still better than most of the shit out there. It's Billy Corgan gone corporate.

Thumbs in the middle.</font>

Originally posted by smashingjj
you know, there are some people who have the power to post on the SP board <i>and</i> this one. I'm one of those.

I think it's bland and not even catchy.

you want a gold fucking medal or something?

I don't like the song.

At all.

Originally posted by Samsa


you want a gold fucking medal or something? ok

It's alright, but from being at the 1st Zwan shows I was expecting more when an album came out.

<font color="DAB9E8">They were playing Honestly in American Eagle yesterday when I was returning some clothes. I was rather surprized.

Anyway, I think it's an a-ok song. I agree that they could've opted for better, but yeah it is catchy and it seems to be a very 'radio friendly' song. The noise in the ********** is fuzzy and it gives me a headache though... it sounds like they've got their amps and shit up too high so that it gives an overall 'fuzz' effect... sort of like 'real love'.
</font>

yeah heh i was in the grocery store the other day and i started singing to myself "there's no - where - i - could - be -without you - honestly" and i almost ran into this guy who worked there :( he was all 'uhh excuse me' and i got embarassed :( not cuz i almost ran into him but 'cause he caught me singing that lame song :(