creative vision as an artist stifiled by being in the pumpkins? if the pumpkins were playing without james .. wouldnt he finally be free, do his own thing/play by his own rules?

Originally posted by MrPantyFAce
creative vision as an artist stifiled by being in the pumpkins? if the pumpkins were playing without james .. wouldnt he finally be free, do his own thing/play by his own rules?

maybe, but without Billy James was nothing.

He rode Billy's coat-tails the whole time.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fonzie


maybe, but without Billy James was nothing.

He rode Billy's coat-tails the whole time. [/QUOT\\


Exactly! Well put! I am glad that someone else said it and not me. I always say that stuff and everyone jumps on me for it. It is the truth though. James owes Billy a lot!

Only as much as he let it I think. His joining the pumpkins was a choice--he didn't have to join. I think he knew from the time he met corgan what he was in for as far as musical direction and contributions to the band. As far as I know billy told him.

I think the pumpkins gave his name enough weight to sell a moderately successful solo album--well, more successfull then it would've been without the notoriety.

Originally posted by MrPantyFAce
free, do his own thing/play by his own rules? fuck you.

Originally posted by Fonzie


maybe, but without Billy James was nothing.

He rode Billy's coat-tails the whole time.
You moron. If it wasn't for James there would be no SP. It would have become another The Marked.

Originally posted by Corgan Rules
[QUOTE]
[B]

James owes Billy a lot!

He owes him fucking nothing bitch!

Originally posted by Dead

You moron. If it wasn't for James there would be no SP. It would have become another The Marked.

That's not true at all! You are giving James way too much credit. Yes he did help influence the music and some songs, but don't get carried away here. He didn't do much of anything besides bitch and whine. Iha and Darcy could have been easily replaced. James doesn't realize what he had with the pumpkins. He was extremely lucky to be in such a successful group and work with an amazing songwriter/musician. If Billy wasn't there, the pumpkins would have done nothing. What could Iha do? A different version of "GO?"

I am a huge pumpkins fan, but it is definitely not because Iha was in the group. He comes across as being just plain lazy and bitchy all the time.

Originally posted by chris_bakewell


He owes him fucking nothing bitch!



ummmm.... without Billy, James would have been nothing and still. would be nothing. He is not very talented and is extremely lazy. He is a dime a dozen. I sure love him for being a member of the pumpkins, but i just wish he did more. He didn't hardly contribute to the band at all.

Originally posted by Corgan Rules




ummmm.... without Billy, James would have been nothing and still. would be nothing. He is not very talented and is extremely lazy. He is a dime a dozen. I sure love him for being a member of the pumpkins, but i just wish he did more. He didn't hardly contribute to the band at all.


I would go as far as to say he is not very talented...in fact he is a pretty good guitarist but yes he could have been replaced.

/likes most of Let It Come Down

Originally posted by *BillysA100*
His joining the pumpkins was a choice--he didn't have to join. I think he knew from the time he met corgan what he was in for as far as musical direction and contributions to the band.


His Joining what? And who do you think the pumpkins were ad that point? Billy and his William Jr? Huh?

There were no pumpkins at that point!

snaketrain is better than anything.

Originally posted by spidrr
snaketrain is better than anything.

yah, I wish that demo tape rip had a higher quality of sound.

Originally posted by Corgan Rules


ummmm.... without Billy, James would have been nothing and still. would be nothing. He is not very talented and is extremely lazy. He is a dime a dozen. I sure love him for being a member of the pumpkins, but i just wish he did more. He didn't hardly contribute to the band at all.

Actually, that isn't true. James did contribute a lot. He had lots of tapes of songs for Mellon Collie. Only one of which got used. Problem was, most of his songs weren't that super. Now, I really like his songs (well, a few of them), but if he were the driving force of the Pumpkins, chances are, we would have never heard of them.

Sorry Chris. :(

Originally posted by Sapphire


Actually, that isn't true. James did contribute a lot. He had lots of tapes of songs for Mellon Collie. Only one of which got used. Problem was, most of his songs weren't that super. Now, I really like his songs (well, a few of them), but if he were the driving force of the Pumpkins, chances are, we would have never heard of them.

Sorry Chris. :(

Seen Hamburg 1998/05/14 ? Who was the driving force there?

Originally posted by Moron 5


Seen Hamburg 1998/05/14 ? Who was the driving force there?

I don't know, I haven't seen it. -lol-

I'm not saying that James was second fiddle all of the time, just most of the time.

Originally posted by Sapphire


I don't know, I haven't seen it. -lol-

I'm not saying that James was second fiddle all of the time, just most of the time.

Do you play a guitar or bass?

I'm asking cause when you watch any video boot the frontman usually gets about 50-100% of cameras pointed at him, occaisionally they show other members. And if you don't know the difference between lead guitar and rythm (I'm not saying that its your case) you begin to think that the only "driving force" is the frontman. Should I explain you technically why that happens?

Originally posted by Moron 5


Do you play a guitar or bass?

I'm asking cause when you watch any video boot the frontman usually gets about 50-100% of cameras pointed at him, occaisionally they show other members. And if you don't know the difference between lead guitar and rythm (I'm not saying that its your case) you begin to think that the only "driving force" is the frontman. Should I explain you technically why that happens?

Actually, I would appreciate an explanation. And I do play guitar, and I know that the rythem guitar is important, I know it is, but I always assumed that they called the lead guitar the lead guitar because it... well, led.

Everyone else keeps the beat going, the bassist, the rythem guitarist (with the exception of the drummer, who can improvise) and the lead guitar stands up there and does pretty much whatever the fuck he wants, as long as it still fits with the song being played and/or resembles a song.

The rythem guitar always just kept the rythem. Like a soldier. Or so I supposed. If this is not the case, and it could very well not be, then I would love an explanation as just to how that shit works. :)

You see , how can we discuss any driving forces when you watch a boot and you see billy taking away his arm from the fretboard moving it to a mic and holding the mic for like 5 seconds or longer . And you don't hear any differences in sound as if his guitar wasnt even plugged. How can we talk about a driving force in this case?

You guys gotta leave James alone and cut him some slack, he has more integrety than Billy has, he is less of an egomaniac that must have the spotlight in order to validate his existance, and he has more talent in his left nostrel than all of you combined.

Originally posted by Moron 5


Do you play a guitar or bass?

I'm asking cause when you watch any video boot the frontman usually gets about 50-100% of cameras pointed at him, occaisionally they show other members. And if you don't know the difference between lead guitar and rythm (I'm not saying that its your case) you begin to think that the only "driving force" is the frontman. Should I explain you technically why that happens?

Who gives a fuck if James plays lead guitar and Billy plays rhythm guitar. Who do you think wrote both parts?

Without James, the Pumpkins would have been 80% the same as far as sound and talent go. But really, the concept of James being imperative to the band's definition comes from favortism and nostalgia. The persona of James comes off as being kind, reserved and thoughtful. And really, that's just because he's quiet and shy.

It's all relative. Was James necessary? Yes. Why? Because his personality was a good compliment to the other three. It enabled the band to appear complex on stage and on TV, with the high-tone, depressed front man, the obscure female bassist, the precise and relentless drug-addict drummer, mixing with the quiet and stealthy Asian guiatarist. But were his guitar-playing and song-writing skills necessary? No. Because almost all of what made the Pumpkins famous was Billy's doing. It was Billy's life that was paraded throughout the lyrics of every album. It was Billy's voice that gave it uniqueness. It was Billy's song-writing that generated almost every riff known to the general public. It was Billy who decided to utilize the effects of the Big Muff pedal that was the backbone the Pumpkin sound. It was Billy who decided where the band was going, why it was going there, and when it would arrive. James was just there, waiting to take orders...

...like any other complimentary guitarist would have done had they been in his shoes.

Originally posted by spank_thru101
You guys gotta leave James alone and cut him some slack, he has more integrety than Billy has, he is less of an egomaniac that must have the spotlight in order to validate his existance, and he has more talent in his left nostrel than all of you combined.


By the way it's a big question :whats better Gish (including pre gish stuff) or that Snaketrain's demo tape.

Originally posted by Reyngel


Without James, the Pumpkins would have been 80% the same as far as sound and talent go.

It's absolutly useless to argue about this theres no way you can prove your point when the majority of people here thinks that James and D'arcy were just hired hands.

Originally posted by Moron 5


It's absolutly useless to argue about this theres no way you can prove your point when the majority of people here thinks that James and D'arcy were just hired hands.

We can't be blamed if we believe that, due to almost every report we've ever heard on either of them was that it was a bitch to get them into the studio, they acted bored when they were there, and their output was pretty much just doing what Billy said.

Billy's best work, Siamese Dream, had almost zero input from either D'arcy or James. To this day I don't believe James did that much for either Soma or Mayonaise. While they were busy fucking each other, Billy gave us an album that stands out amongst all time.

Was James cool? No doubt. Did he lend a cool on stage presence to SP? Sure did. Did he fulfill his duties during touring? You betcha. But as far as the actual songs go. As far as the heart of the matter is concerned, the Smashing Pumpkins were Billy Corgan and Jimmy Chamberlin, and that's about it.

Originally posted by Sapphire


We can't be blamed if we believe that, due to almost every report we've ever heard on either of them was that it was a bitch to get them into the studio


Report? In the name of god , tell me who was the reporter?

Originally posted by Sapphire
While they were busy fucking each other

actually, weren't they broken up by then? not that it would've stopped them but thats kind of messed up.

Originally posted by Reyngel


Who gives a fuck if James plays lead guitar and Billy plays rhythm guitar. Who do you think wrote both parts?

Without James, the Pumpkins would have been 80% the same as far as sound and talent go. But really, the concept of James being imperative to the band's definition comes from favortism and nostalgia. The persona of James comes off as being kind, reserved and thoughtful. And really, that's just because he's quiet and shy.

It's all relative. Was James necessary? Yes. Why? Because his personality was a good compliment to the other three. It enabled the band to appear complex on stage and on TV, with the high-tone, depressed front man, the obscure female bassist, the precise and relentless drug-addict drummer, mixing with the quiet and stealthy Asian guiatarist. But were his guitar-playing and song-writing skills necessary? No. Because almost all of what made the Pumpkins famous was Billy's doing. It was Billy's life that was paraded throughout the lyrics of every album. It was Billy's voice that gave it uniqueness. It was Billy's song-writing that generated almost every riff known to the general public. It was Billy who decided to utilize the effects of the Big Muff pedal that was the backbone the Pumpkin sound. It was Billy who decided where the band was going, why it was going there, and when it would arrive. James was just there, waiting to take orders...

...like any other complimentary guitarist would have done had they been in his shoes.

Word up!

Originally posted by Sapphire


We can't be blamed if we believe that, due to almost every report we've ever heard on either of them was that it was a bitch to get them into the studio, they acted bored when they were there, and their output was pretty much just doing what Billy said.

Billy's best work, Siamese Dream, had

Think about it. Who was the one who told us about what happened in the studio? Billy. We can believe what we want, but without the accounts of all the bandmembers, everything Billy has said should be viewed as biased because of the bitterness he conveys when recalling the past.

Billy's best work? That's a matter of opinion.

james' ultimate contribution to the band was to look ninja

that is all

Okay, maybe forming the band was a joint effort. BUT...once the band got off the ground, James seemed to only be interested in the songs that were his.

Originally posted by *BillysA100*
Okay, maybe forming the band was a joint effort. BUT...once the band got off the ground, James seemed to only be interested in the songs that were his.

i really hate you.

you don't even know me...ohhhh..someone on the internet hates me..O000 NoZ....

People.:rolleyes:

Are you Billy Corgan? :eek:

Originally posted by *BillysA100*
you don't even know me...ohhhh..someone on the internet hates me..O000 NoZ....

People.:rolleyes:

i hope you get aids and die

Originally posted by MajesticFlow


i hope you get aids and die that's an awesome post, truly stimulating any further debate. thanks for sharing it!

I see now why I avoid this board.

<img src=http://forums.netphoria.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=1625538>

Maybe its jys me being an Amish Rake Farmer whose keyboard is sticky from beer stains, but is there one of us who play guitar who can't play the "James" riffs in songs. Seriously... James then and now is just a hired goon...

Hey welcome to my world...I'm drunk, long story short, James rocked in Blew Away and Go. Sorry fockers, didn;t like Summer and his solo CD was the worst I ever bought... even worse than St Anger...yea, i went there...

Hopefully you won't return.

Originally posted by Dead

You moron. If it wasn't for James there would be no SP. It would have become another The Marked.

Man, you bring teh funny to this post.

I hardly think the equation is "The Marked" + "Let It Come Down" = "The Smashing Pumpkins".

Originally posted by Fonzie


I hardly think the equation is "The Marked" + "Let It Come Down" = "The Smashing Pumpkins".

Dude, you don't get it. Billy was too busy recording Siamese Dream to fuck D'arcy in the ass. Enter James. The ragin' Asian man with the wang o' doom. Now, both D'arcy and Billy were happy, all due to James.

Give the motherfucker some respect.

Originally posted by Sapphire


Dude, you don't get it. Billy was too busy recording Siamese Dream to fuck D'arcy in the ass. Enter James. The ragin' Asian man with the wang o' doom. Now, both D'arcy and Billy were happy, all due to James.

Give the motherfucker some respect.

werd

Originally posted by Sapphire


Dude, you don't get it. Billy was too busy recording Siamese Dream to fuck D'arcy in the ass. Enter James. The ragin' Asian man with the wang o' doom. Now, both D'arcy and Billy were happy, all due to James.

Give the motherfucker some respect.

Well, if that's the case, then I humbly stand down on my criticism of Jamez.