View Full Version : the ignoffo tape


Mooney
04-11-2005, 01:05 PM
obviously its something pre-'90, but i know nothing about it. any information would be appreciated.

Cool As Ice Cream
04-11-2005, 01:16 PM
The Smashing Pumpkins
xx-xx-88 "The Ignoffo Tape"

Source: STU>ANA-2>DATM
Conversion: Technics tape deck>DAT>DAT2WAV
Encode: wav's>FLAC

**************************************************
THIS SHOW IS NOT TO BE MP3-ENCODED
**************************************************

Disc 1
01. I Am One (4:19)
02. Bury Me (4:14)
03. Daydream (1:53)
04. Not Worth Asking (4:00)
05. Honeyspider (2:25)
06. Rhinoceros (5:25)
07. Snap (3:32)
08. Love (3:35)
09. C'mon (4:54)
10. Under Your Spell (3:56)
11. Jennifer Ever [Click Track] (3:32)
12. There It Goes [Cut] (4:23)

Disc 2:
01. There It Goes (5:36)
02. She (3:52)
03. My Eternity (5:55)
04. Bleed (5:07)
05. Spiteface (4:26)
06. Nothing and Everything (6:27)
07. Cinnamon Girl (2:37)
08. Time Has Come Today (4:05)
09. My Dahlia (3:41)
BONUS FILLER:
10. My Dahlia [Rehearsal] (4:17)
11. The Crystal Ship (2:47)
12. I Fall (5:58)

Notes:

D1:
T12: Cut as per master

D2:
T1-6: 10/05/88 - Metro; Chicago, IL, US (slight analog noise in T1)
T7,9: 1989 - Reel Time Studios
T8: 11/20/88 Last Exit, Chicago, IL [AUD>Reel2Reel>ANA-1>DAT-M]
T10-11: From "The Psycho Tape," an unseeded compilation of early Pumpkins material. Consider this a tease.
T12: 1988: Billy's Father's Home Studio [STU>ANA-2>FLAC]

wpc33
04-11-2005, 01:46 PM
Somebody please PM me on how I can help seed/tree/just plain get this cd
Thanks!:)

Sapphire
04-11-2005, 01:47 PM
Time Has Come Today?

The Crystal Ship?

I know nothing of these. Yay! More Pumpkins songs for me to hear! :D

tomthum81
04-11-2005, 02:02 PM
The Crystal Ship?
Doors cover

sweter33
04-11-2005, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Sapphire
Time Has Come Today?



that's a cover as well.
great version though, one of the greatest pre-Gish Billy's vocal performances imho.

smashing0
04-11-2005, 06:43 PM
http://zombtracker.the-zomb.com/details.php?id=1030
(you need an account there... it's quick and easy to sign up)

Mooney
04-11-2005, 07:10 PM
fuck, i haven't listened to much pumpkins at all in the past couple years, but i just downloaded this because i saw it pop up somewhere, and i'm enjoy this pre-gish era pumpkins more than any other era.

SomaPhreak
04-12-2005, 12:28 AM
I was thrilled to hear that bonus filler when it came out. None of it was all that great (well, I Fall does have a certain charm), but the thrill of unheard Pumpkins was still sweet. I got that same feeling listening to Ether's Tragic a couple of days ago - "new" Pumpkins in 2005! That's a nice little instrumental. It's sad that I have obtained pretty much every known studio recording at this point - but I am hopeful that more stuff will surface in a future box set.

spacey raygun
04-12-2005, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by SomaPhreak
I was thrilled to hear that bonus filler when it came out. None of it was all that great (well, I Fall does have a certain charm), but the thrill of unheard Pumpkins was still sweet. I got that same feeling listening to Ether's Tragic a couple of days ago - "new" Pumpkins in 2005! That's a nice little instrumental. It's sad that I have obtained pretty much every known studio recording at this point - but I am hopeful that more stuff will surface in a future box set.

"the ethers tragic" has been commercially availible since 1997.

edit: http://spfc.org/songs-releases/discog.html?discog_id=26

Cool As Ice Cream
04-12-2005, 11:11 AM
Yeah.

How could you not have heard that before? You tried very hard not to?

SomaPhreak
04-13-2005, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by spacey raygun


"the ethers tragic" has been commercially availible since 1997.

edit: http://spfc.org/songs-releases/discog.html?discog_id=26

:rolleyes:

I'm well aware of when and where it was commerically released. I chose not to purchase a massively overpriced import CD for two instrumentals.

Shocking, really.

Sapphire
04-13-2005, 02:47 AM
For this board, it is.

Cool As Ice Cream
04-13-2005, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by SomaPhreak
I chose not to purchase a massively overpriced import CD for two instrumentals. It was the cheapest SP single I ever bought.

Dead
04-13-2005, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by SomaPhreak


:rolleyes:

I'm well aware of when and where it was commerically released. I chose not to purchase a massively overpriced import CD for two instrumentals.

Shocking, really.
I bought it for all 4 traxxx. But it was pretty expensive. Every SP single was. Don't think I ever got anything under $10.

Quiet
04-13-2005, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by Dead

I bought it for all 4 traxxx. But it was pretty expensive. Every SP single was. Don't think I ever got anything under $10.

Really? I don't think I've ever paid over $6 for anything. I got the Peel Sessions for $1.50. Of course, I just started buying them online about a year and a half ago, which could explain why they were so cheap.

Quiet
04-13-2005, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by smashing0
http://zombtracker.the-zomb.com/details.php?id=1030
(you need an account there... it's quick and easy to sign up)

Hmmm... I don't understand the "ratio" thing in the site rules. Does that mean you have to upload just as much as you download?

smashing0
04-14-2005, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Quiet


Hmmm... I don't understand the "ratio" thing in the site rules. Does that mean you have to upload just as much as you download?
it's not that hard
on the home page it gives you some guidlines

03 gigs downloaded with a ratio < or = to 0.05
06 gigs downloaded with a ratio < or = to 0.10
09 gigs downloaded with a ratio < or = to 0.15
12 gigs downloaded with a ratio < or = to 0.20
15 gigs downloaded with a ratio < or = to 0.25
18 gigs downloaded with a ratio < or = to 0.30
30 gigs downloaded with a ratio < or = to 0.50
50 gigs downloaded with a ratio < or = to 0.75
99 gigs downloaded with a ratio < or = to 0.80

and if you don't follow those you have a week before they ban you

(gig = GB)

Quiet
04-14-2005, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by smashing0

it's not that hard
on the home page it gives you some guidlines

03 gigs downloaded with a ratio < or = to 0.05
06 gigs downloaded with a ratio < or = to 0.10
09 gigs downloaded with a ratio < or = to 0.15
12 gigs downloaded with a ratio < or = to 0.20
15 gigs downloaded with a ratio < or = to 0.25
18 gigs downloaded with a ratio < or = to 0.30
30 gigs downloaded with a ratio < or = to 0.50
50 gigs downloaded with a ratio < or = to 0.75
99 gigs downloaded with a ratio < or = to 0.80

and if you don't follow those you have a week before they ban you

(gig = GB)

No, I understood that part. What does "ratio" refer to though?

Cool As Ice Cream
04-15-2005, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Quiet


No, I understood that part. What does "ratio" refer to though?
Upload / download.

Indeed, you're supposed to upload at least as much as you download. Otherwise the system won't work and the torrents will suffer early death.

spacey raygun
04-15-2005, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by CoolAsIceCream
It was the cheapest SP single I ever bought.

i think i spent $6.99

thats almost as much as the 4 lossy, compressed songs on itunes i just bought!!! throw in a few more dollars for packaging and artwork and the cost it takes to get to america. i say it's not so overpriced.

Cool As Ice Cream
04-15-2005, 11:54 AM
I paid the equivalent of 2.50.

Ugly
04-29-2005, 02:36 AM
Just DLed it, gonna burn it tomorrow, once I buy some meself some CDs.

for the non-leet, here's "I Fall" - Billy's Dad's Basement '88. Diggin the drum machine. Whoot.

http://s50.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2BMWNMTEN1EGQ0BLAJM0HLRWTD

(yeah, yeah, I know. "Not to be MP3 encoded." I'm not making a torrent of the whole freakin thing here. Its one track for the little people, chill. There's alot noobs kickin round here, might as well do one nice thing, then go back to insulting them repeatedly.)

Anyway, anyone know the history about this Ignifo tape bad boy?

gpub
04-29-2005, 03:14 AM
Originally posted by Ugly
Just Diggin the drum machine. Whoot.

Cool As Ice Cream
04-29-2005, 03:42 AM
Originally posted by Ugly
Anyway, anyone know the history about this Ignifo tape bad boy? There's a lot of info in this thread: http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=428

I found this post very good:
88xxxx 'Ignoffo'-tape aka Gish/881005 - Some comments by Sven Schlijper

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This seems to be a direct rip from one of numerous tapes Billy Corgan made back in 88-90 for his friends, or people in the music business in Chicago. There are at least a few copies of tapes like this floating around.

Verified have been:
- Gish/881005 [Ignoffo]
- Gish/Moon
- 'untitled' promo tape (without sleeve) [auctioned on eBay a while ago]
- Mike Potential's DAT which spawned the RTS-tree

Roughly these tapes follow the same pattern: a number of tracks from the electric RTS session, plus sometimes a few fillers. Tapes Corgan used were mostly 90 min (or longer) Maxell XLII-S [Japan], or brandless clear case tapes with white hand written labels affixed - in the case of the promotional tapes. Mike Potential's DAT has the full Reel Time sessions.

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GISH
Interesting to see: the RTS songs on these tapes seem to be titled 'Gish' very early on. It seems correct to date these tapes to 1989, maybe early 1990, but i'd go for 89. Thus, these songs were even then going under the banner of 'Gish' already.

On the 'Gish/Moon' tape the 'Gish' part seems to consist of:
I Am One
Bury Me
Daydream
Not Worth Asking
Honeyspider
Rhinoceros
Snap
Love
c'Mon
East
Since the b-side is titled 'Moon' and follows the tracklisting for the self-released demotape.
On 'Ignoffo' we find exactly the same songs, in identical running order.
The 1989-1990 demo promo 'Gish Basement Tape' cuts this list to only the first 5 songs.

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REEL TIME
All tapes, apart from Mike Potential's re-sequenced alphabetical one, use the same running order for most of the RTS songs. Therefore we might conclude this sequence is the desired order for these songs. On three tapes the first 10/11 songs appear in the exact same order, are from the same source and are cut exactly the same. It seems Corgan had a [master?]-tape which he kept on using, which already *******d this format. It might be a long shot to conclude this order is also the order in which the Reel Time Session songs were recorded. It seems rather accurate though to conlcude the band's preferred order for these songs is reflected in the running order we find on these homemade tapes. 'Cinnamon Girl' seems to have been used as a filler rather than a song reflecting the 'Gish'batch of songs, since sometimes it was present, sometimes it was left off.

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MOON
A few songs from the same session pop up on various other locations. Such as the 'Moon' demo tape and 'Gish/Moon' tape.

Honeyspider [II]
With You
Egg
Rhinoceros [organ solo version]
Bye June

Stars Fall In
Daughter
Daydream
Psychodelic

As for the running order of these songs, on various sources, this stays identical. With again the exception of Mike Potential's DAT these songs seem to be presented in the band's desired format on the 'Moon' sequence. When songs pop up on other locations than the 'release version' of 'Moon' the same sequence is used.

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B-SIDE FILLER
Corgan used to pack his tapes with music. Often cutting songs at the end of the tape-sides. 'Cinnamon Girl' is one of the assumed filler tracks, mostly present on side A. On the b-side of these tapes we find two different recordings.
1) 881005
2) 'Moon'songs and various filler tracks

@ 1):
The recording of 881005 which had been floating around for a long time now was of a very high generation. Billy's copy was of an early generation, but with some defects. For CR-05 professional cleaning up and remastering was done. Still, there are two glitches in N+E.
There is a second source for this show. It's a splice between two available audience tapes; from the same source [?], compiling the complete show. This low gen version does not have the warble/glitch Corgan's master for CR-05 has.

So basically there are two good versions of 881005 out there. One from CR-05 which sounds great, because of the professional work that has been done on the recording. And another spliced source, without the use of CR-05 and without the glitches.

On Corgan's homemade tape an incomplete version of 881005 is found.

From 881005 [BC's CR-05 tape?]:

There It Goes
She
My Eternity
Bleed
Spiteface

On 'Ignoffo'aka 'Gish/881005' another Nothing & Everything is used. This is the version which was used in the RTS tree. I believe date&location for this recording are still unknown. But we can say for sure it's NOT the 881005 version. So in 1989, when compiling these homemade tapes Corgan left Nothing & Everything off the tapes and replaced it with another version. However, on CR-05 he did use his own, defective, version of the song.


@ 2):
Various filler tracks were used by BC.

On 'Ignoffo'aka 'Gish/881005' we find:
- Jennifer Ever [acoustic/click track version] > also used on the RTS tree
- Under Your Spell [1988 studio demo] > also found on Mashed Potatoes
- There It Goes [1988 studio demo] > also found on Mashed Potatoes. The Ignoffo version is cut as per tape end, on MP it's the full song
- Cinnamon Girl [Reel Time session] > present on the RTS tree
- Time Has Come Today [881120, Last Exit, Chicago, IL] > audience recording
- My Dahlia [1989 studio demo] > also found on Mashed Potatoes, NOT the Light Into Dark version

On 'Gish/Moon' we find:
- Cinnamon Girl [RTS]
- I Fall [very early demo]
- Times Has Come Today [881120]

I Fall is being distributed now as a demo from 1988. This could very well be the case. However, I clearly remember Dave Asselin's assertion Corgan has told him James and he recorded I Fall in late 1987 in his father's studio, using a drummachine. Corgan produced this from the top of his head. Whatever you might think of this, still, Asselin got I Fall the day before we went to the listening party for MACHINA where Corgan gave him 880810 Avalon, with I Fall [live]. They discussed the song then and that's where Corgan came up with the date of 1987. The song was listed in Asselin's bootlist as xx.xx.87. Maybe there is a possibility someone can shed some light on this issue. Personally I tink a recording in 1987 isn't that far off. The lone known source for this song is a handwritten homemade Corgan tape entitled 'Gish/Moon', to be dated 1989.

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25 TRACKS O'PUMPKINS AKA PSYCHO VIDEO
Some filler tracks from the Ignoffo-torrent were taken from this 'infamous' video of various live performances around 88-89. Full audio of this video has been spread to some extent, the video itself has yet to spread into wider circulation, I believe.

From this video tape the following audio is currently in wide circulation:
- My Dahlia [reahearsel] > found on Ignoffo torrent
- The Crystal Ship [The Doors cover] > found on Ignoffo torrent
- She [live] > unknown location&date, found on the 3 Songs O'Rarities leak
- My Eternity [live 88119, PCA] > found on the 3 Songs O'Rarities leak

Apprently Corgan made this video tape for an early fan/girlfriend. The full tracklisting for this video *******s:

01 Venus in Furs
02 Rhinoceros
03 East
04 I Am One
05 My Dahlia [rehearsel]
06 She
07 I'm Free [The Who cover]
08 Oui Henri [cut]
09 Nothing & Everything
10 My Eternity [PCA]
11 The Crystal Ship [The Doors cover]
12 Sun
13 Spiteface
14 I Am My End
15 Rhinoceros
16 Ball & Chain [James Iha composition?!]
17 Bury Me
18 Try ot Try
19 Salt
20 Lie I Lie
21 Razor
22 Love
23 C'Mon [fade-out]
24 a very short soundcheck snippet
25 Jennifer Ever

tracks 14~23 are from 891031, Metro, Chicago, IL [14-18 Set 1/19-23 Set 2]

At the after show party @ Metro after the last performance, this video was shown, amongst others on a big screen onstage. Both audio and video quality are quite bad. Still, we'd you expect from a homedubbed video from 1989?

Both video and full audio have still to surface on greater scale.

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OTHER NON-RTS SONGS
The 'Ignoffo' tape also *******s three songs not from RTS, or 25 O'Pumpkins video.

This Jennifer Ever seems to be exclusive to the 'Ignoffo' tape. Source is identical to the one used in the RTS tree; the 'Ignoffo' tape that is.

Both Under Your Spell and There It Goes are studio demo's. These versions did appear on Mashed Potatoes. Datewise I'd conclude we are looking for a session in 1988. Possibly Corgan Sr.'s home recording studio. SPFC.org lists a session which might have *******d a drummachine in 1988.

However Under Your Spell clearly uses a live drummer. I Fall and There It Goes share some similar sounds and both use a drummachine. So now we have Corgan's claim to 1987 for I Fall and There It Goes studio w/ drummachine [?], plus Under Your Spell with live drumming. Not from the same session, this might make Under Your Spell a demorecording from around mid-88 with Jimmy in the band and There It Goes from early-88. Possibly recorded with I Fall, which would not match up to Corgan's assertion of the date of 1987. Some confusion here...