CNN article about US armed forces recruiting falling short (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/06/military.recruiting.reut/index.html)


I was reading this article and thinking again about the prospect of joining the US armed forces. I'm not going to do it, and I know why, but I was wondering if you guys wanted to share whether or not you've considered it and what is holding you back and what might encourage you to join. I've thought about doing it because I could probably get a fairly skilled job and I could help protect America. I mean, I am not so much for this country's policies and what it does to other countries a lot of the time, but I do understand that we have an amazing freedom here that doesn't come for free and we do protect a lot of others with our military. I suppose that if it wasn't for our armed forces, we would be nothing. So it takes the investment of all sorts of people to keep this show running, and I ask myself a lot if I shouldn't contribute to it. But my answer is always a resounding no, because I don't want to work firsthand on things used to kill others and I don't want to kill, and I don't want to be terrified, and I don't want to be shipped off to the middle east. I think it's a pretty amazing sacrifice, I can't believe that people could go down to the recruiters' office and sign up right now, knowing their eminent fate.

im just afraid of waking up one day 25+ years old and with nothing going on in my life at all

Originally posted by pink_ribbon_scars
I do understand that we have an amazing freedom here that doesn't come for free and we do protect a lot of others with our military.
i think you'll find we have "amazing freedom" over here too and we don't need to invade some country every few years to keep it or achieve records in military spending. also, us army is not necessarily = smurfs

i was wondering how long it would be before someone from nothing-land, the world would post in this thread.

lol @ eminent fate

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/pope/art/faithimg1.jpg

Originally posted by killer_tomato

i think you'll find we have "amazing freedom" over here too and we don't need to invade some country every few years to keep it. also, us amry is not necessarily = smurfs

but surely you understand that our armed forces do way more than just invading countries.

and i don't know what you're talking about re: smurfs. oh well.

Originally posted by pink_ribbon_scars


but surely you understand that our armed forces do way more than just invading countries.

and i don't know what you're talking about re: smurfs. oh well.

im familiar with definitions 3 and 9...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=smurf&r=f
:confused:

Originally posted by pink_ribbon_scars


but surely you understand that our armed forces do way more than just invading countries.

and i don't know what you're talking about re: smurfs. oh well.
are you talking about peace-keeping and disaster relief? of course armies all over the world have some role in that but to defend their size because they prevent other people from shooting each other and to help after natural disasters strike is pretty hypocritical. you don't really need that much of a national military just to keep the peace both in your country and abroad. if you want violent involvement in other states affairs on the other hand you need a massive amount of funding and lots of manpower.

the smurfs are what united nations armed forces are sometimes called, because of their blue helmets.

why would we leave things up to the UN when it would just be tying our hands for about 15 extra troops

Originally posted by alexthestampede
why would we leave things up to the UN when it would just be tying our hands for about 15 extra troops

The money was not nearly enough.

Originally posted by killer_tomato

are you talking about peace-keeping and disaster relief? of course armies all over the world have some role in that but to defend their size because they prevent other people from shooting each other and to help after natural disasters strike is pretty hypocritical. you don't really need that much of a national military just to keep the peace both in your country and abroad. if you want violent involvement in other states affairs on the other hand you need a massive amount of funding and lots of manpower.

the smurfs are what united nations armed forces are sometimes called, because of their blue helmets.

we have to protect our own country, too. given our history, i'm sure if we had a small army somebody would come over here and kick our ass. plus, just having such a large and powerful army makes it possible for us to do things that not having such an army would keep us from doing. i'll be honest, i don't know a lot about all this, and you're raising the kind of points that i wanted raised by this thread. thanks for that and for teaching me what a smurf is. :] i've said all i really have to say for now, 'm going to see if some more people will put in their opinions.

Originally posted by pink_ribbon_scars
thanks for that and for teaching me what a smurf is. :]
no problem ;). the smurfs aren't really that great either. the movie "no man's land" gives a good picture of smurfs, and it's also a great movie. that's the 2001 one by danis tanovic by the way, since allmovie brings up loads of results.

I don't think I'd trust any government of mine enough to join the army.

Originally posted by Injektilo
I don't think I'd trust any government of mine enough to join the army. You are the government, asswipe.

i don't think i could handle being yelled at all the time. i cry at the drop of a hat anyway, why do i need someone yelling at me to make it worse?

plus, i've never been really good with authority. i'm overly paranoid and worry about everything so i think that having someone constantly in my "business" would put me over the edge and i'd have a breakdown.

my boyfriend is a marine and although i'm all gung-ho for him getting his shit done, i just couldn't handle it.

Originally posted by Affectation
You are the government, asswipe. how profound

I wouldn't want to do boot camp. I don't like public bathrooms.

Originally posted by Dead
I wouldn't want to do boot camp. I don't like public bathrooms. And you're a slobby piece of shit. You couldn't handle the exercise.

Originally posted by pink_ribbon_scars


we have to protect our own country, too. given our history, i'm sure if we had a small army somebody would come over here and kick our ass. plus, just having such a large and powerful army makes it possible for us to do things that not having such an army would keep us from doing. i'll be honest, i don't know a lot about all this, and you're raising the kind of points that i wanted raised by this thread. thanks for that and for teaching me what a smurf is. :] i've said all i really have to say for now, 'm going to see if some more people will put in their opinions.


There are plenty of rich countries with small armies who don't get their asses kicked.



You should probably think about what role you feel an army should play for a nation. Is it really only for defence? What are some of the "other things" you think an army is useful for. Then think about whether or not your army fulfills that, and then maybe decide if that's something you want to be a part of.
You've also gotta consider what you want out of it and if there's any other way you might acheive that.

Personally, I wish I had something like the Peace Corps to join, so that's where I'd be looking if I were in your position.

Originally posted by alexthestampede
why would we leave things up to the UN when it would just be tying our hands for about 15 extra troops
wow way to miss the point

Originally posted by Injektilo



There are plenty of rich countries with small armies who don't get their asses kicked.



You should probably think about what role you feel an army should play for a nation. Is it really only for defence? What are some of the "other things" you think an army is useful for. Then think about whether or not your army fulfills that, and then maybe decide if that's something you want to be a part of.
You've also gotta consider what you want out of it and if there's any other way you might acheive that.

Personally, I wish I had something like the Peace Corps to join, so that's where I'd be looking if I were in your position. Name one that doesn't also have something that the rest of the world needs.

Originally posted by Affectation
Name one that doesn't also have something that the rest of the world needs.

Norway


doesn't Norway have a lot of fish and oil? something like that. i know the EU really wants Norway in, but Norway doesn't want to share all it's stuff.

Originally posted by mxzombie
how profound

Indeed. Next you'll tell me that any little boy can grow up to be president, that George Washington never told a lie, and that voting is fun.

Iv recently seriously considered applying to the officer corps once i get my degree. However i cant justify making an oath to the monarchy, no matter how nationalistic i am. Im an ardent republican.

I would never join as a member of the rank and file. I just cant stand brainless discipline.

If the things changed enough for me to join id apply to become an infantry commander. I think i have a deathwish.

The protect america stuff is hilarious though. If you join the army in this day and age you are a tool for profit.

Originally posted by the


Norway


doesn't Norway have a lot of fish and oil? something like that. i know the EU really wants Norway in, but Norway doesn't want to share all it's stuff. Germany stomped them pretty hard.

Originally posted by Affectation
Name one that doesn't also have something that the rest of the world needs.

In terms of "needs" the only thing really is Oil, and there you've got a few examples like The just said, Norway, or another one like Venezuela. Though if you're Venezuela, you've gotta be careful of those coups which seem to happen fairly often in Latin America when a country doesn't please the US....... for some odd reason.

Originally posted by Injektilo


Indeed. Next you'll tell me that any little boy can grow up to be president, that George Washington never told a lie, and that voting is fun. Or you could show how anti you are by tattooing your name on your chest. Good try.

noones going to enforce anything worldwide with economic sanctions. but IMO the US isnt being aggressive enough to keep nukes off the peninsula, anyway. we won the cold war and saved many european countries from communism with a large army and it's the United States' overwhelming brawn that makes it a global bully, not it's buying power.

Originally posted by Affectation
Or you could show how anti you are by tattooing your name on your chest. Good try.

Anti? anti what? I don't think you know enough about me do you, so you're just assuming I'm some anti-government neo-hippie idealistic punk.

Originally posted by Injektilo


Anti? anti what? I don't think you know enough about me do you, so you're just assuming I'm some anti-government neo-hippie idealistic punk.

Originally posted by Injektilo
I don't think I'd trust any government of mine enough to join the army.

I'm fat, I have bad vision, I'm uncoordinated, I like penises. Lots of reasons.

Originally posted by ravenguy2000
I'm fat, I have bad vision, I'm uncoordinated, I like penises. Lots of reasons. You look similar to that guy in FMJ.

Originally posted by Injektilo



There are plenty of rich countries with small armies who don't get their asses kicked.


I'm saying if AMERICA's army got suddenly tiny, we would probably get our ass kicked. Right? There's some hate out there. No body cares about Denmark, so it can stand to have a small army. We're talking about current-day America here. We're not talking about an imaginary America or your ideal America, we're talking about reality.

Originally posted by Affectation
Germany stomped them pretty hard.

poor norway :/

Originally posted by Affectation




Yeah, as in, I don't trust my government to do what I consider "right" in most foreign affairs. Most of the time actually, I would. Canada generally sends peacekeepers abroad, thats where the majority of our soldiers end up going. But considering that we were involved in the First Gulf War and we were involved in Afghanistan, and how close we were to going into Iraq a second time.... those aren't opperations I could join in good conscious.

If I'm being asked to go somewhere and potentially shoot people, the people sending me had better have a pretty good reason for it. There are some cases where I would, and some where I wouldn't. And I don't trust my government enough to do that.

Originally posted by pink_ribbon_scars


I'm saying if AMERICA's army got suddenly tiny, we would probably get our ass kicked. Right? There's some hate out there. No body cares about Denmark, so it can stand to have a small army. We're talking about current-day America here. We're not talking about an imaginary America or your ideal America, we're talking about reality.

hahahahha.

people want to kick america's ass because of the big bad army. it's like killing an elephant!

Originally posted by alexthestampede
waking up one day 25+ years old and with nothing going on in my life at all

welcome to my world!

Originally posted by Injektilo


Yeah, as in, I don't trust my government to do what I consider "right" in most foreign affairs. Most of the time actually, I would. Canada generally sends peacekeepers abroad, thats where the majority of our soldiers end up going. But considering that we were involved in the First Gulf War and we were involved in Afghanistan, and how close we were to going into Iraq a second time.... those aren't opperations I could join in good conscious.

If I'm being asked to go somewhere and potentially shoot people, the people sending me had better have a pretty good reason for it. There are some cases where I would, and some where I wouldn't. And I don't trust my government enough to do that. The role of a soldier is not to question the orders.

Originally posted by pink_ribbon_scars


I'm saying if AMERICA's army got suddenly tiny, we would probably get our ass kicked. Right? There's some hate out there. No body cares about Denmark, so it can stand to have a small army. We're talking about current-day America here. We're not talking about an imaginary America or your ideal America, we're talking about reality.

Who do you think would want to kick your ass? Why is there some hate out there?

I mean, the US spends nearly as much as the rest of the world combined on defence. You could cut your budget into a tenth of what it is and still be able to quite easily defend yourselves.

Originally posted by Affectation
You look similar to that guy in FMJ.

What's FMJ?

Probably something really obvious.

Originally posted by Affectation
The role of a soldier is not to question the orders.


....... which is why I'm not going to join the army. see how this works?

If there were some sort of standing UN army that was used for peacekeeping missions around the world, then I might consider that an option for a few years of my life, depending on what sort of missions they were on. But there isn't, so....

i want to join but they want take people on antidepressants. they will if i go off them... but thats just asking for trouble.

Originally posted by ravenguy2000


What's FMJ?

Probably something really obvious. Full Metal Jacket. A war movie by Kubrick.

Originally posted by alexthestampede
noones going to enforce anything worldwide with economic sanctions. but IMO the US isnt being aggressive enough to keep nukes off the peninsula, anyway. we won the cold war and saved many european countries from communism with a large army and it's the United States' overwhelming brawn that makes it a global bully, not it's buying power.
your history teacher must've been a fucking idiot.

affectation if youre looking for true americans, try someplace besides the internet


also, full metal jacket sucks

Originally posted by killer_tomato

your history teacher must've been a fucking idiot.
ih

tell me that russia didnt ruin itself trying to keep an army as large as ours

Originally posted by alexthestampede

ih

tell me that russia didnt ruin itself trying to keep an army as large as ours
the "saved many european countries" part is a joke. the us was contemplating armed intervention in fucking italy in case the communists got too much power through elections right after the second world war. would that have counted as saving italy? besides, the soviet union was not keen on extending its influence further than eastern europe and the domino theory is a load of shit.

Originally posted by alexthestampede
affectation if youre looking for true americans, try someplace besides the internet


also, full metal jacket sucks You're an idiot.

Originally posted by killer_tomato

i think you'll find we have "amazing freedom" over here too and we don't need to invade some country every few years to keep it or achieve records in military spending.

i agree with you that many of the u.s.'s military actions over the last few decades have not done anything to 'protect our freedom' (that phrase has been raped so much in recent years, ugh).

however, many argue that europe has drastically demilitarized itself at the expense of the citizens of the united states. they say that misadventures aside, the united states armed forces essentially now serves as the theoretical/deterrent european defense force as well. so if you're going to say that europe enjoys freedom without a military, you might want to take that viewpoint into consideration.

Originally posted by Affectation
Full Metal Jacket. A war movie by Kubrick.

Oh, duh.

Originally posted by blackfaerie
i don't think i could handle being yelled at all the time. i cry at the drop of a hat anyway, why do i need someone yelling at me to make it worse?


As long as you're not in a Combat Arms type job, this doesn't happen past your initial training. After that, it's like going to a real job. You have a boss, you do your work, you go home. In fact, they're not allowed to yell at you. It's a "Kinder, Gentler, Equal Opportunity" army. You'd be suprised.

Not saying it doesn't suck. But just getting rid of any falseties that may exist.

Originally posted by Mariner


i agree with you that many of the u.s.'s military actions over the last few decades have not done anything to 'protect our freedom' (that phrase has been raped so much in recent years, ugh).

however, many argue that europe has drastically demilitarized itself at the expense of the citizens of the united states. they say that misadventures aside, the united states armed forces essentially now serves as the theoretical/deterrent european defense force as well. so if you're going to say that europe enjoys freedom without a military, you might want to take that viewpoint into consideration.
odds are that there's going to be a european defense force pretty soon. but i don't think that europe has caused enough controversy/"injustice" to cause the kind of "hatred" towards the us that occurs in say the arab states or north korea. of course, you can argue that this is because the eu doesn't have large armed forces and because it is divided rather than united - still, i think it is also due to the way the eu handles both diplomacy and internal affairs (ie. by not alienating the muslim minority nearly as much as in the us).

Originally posted by Affectation
The role of a soldier is not to question the orders.

Actually, if the order could be considered unlawful, it is. Because if a soldier follows an unlawful order, they can be punished just as badly as the person who gave it.

But anyway...

Originally posted by Bobbin TB
i want to join but they want take people on antidepressants. they will if i go off them... but thats just asking for trouble.

That's funny, considering the Army doctors give them out like candy.

Oh, and my answer to your question: Been there, done that, won't do it again. It's not my cup of tea, and I think I'm more of a hinderance than a help.

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser

It's a "Kinder, Gentler, Equal Opportunity" army.

yea, that too

well i thought about the army
dad said, son you're fucking high
and i thought, yeah there's a first for everything
so i took my old man's advice
three sad semesters
it was only fifteen grand spent in bed
i thought about the army
i dropped out and joined a band instead

grew a moustache and a mullet
got a job at chic-fil-a
citing artistic differences
the band broke up in may
and in june reformed without me
and they'd got a different name
i nuked another grandma's apple pie
and hung my head in shame

i've been thinking a lot today
i've been thinking a lot today

oh, i think i'll write a screenplay
oh, i think i'll take it to LA
oh, i think i'll get it done yesterday

in this time of introspection
on the eve of my election
i say to my reflection
god, please spare me more rejection
'cause my peers, they criticize me
and my ex-wives all despise me
try to put it all behind me
but my redneck past is nipping at my heels

i've been thinking a lot today
i've been thinking a lot today
i've been thinking a lot today
i thought about the army.
----------

Do we need an army? Yes. Will/would I ever be involved in any military process? Hell no.

Originally posted by killer_tomato
the eu doesn't have large armed forces

not yet.

Originally posted by Affectation
You look similar to that guy in FMJ.

It'd make for an interesting boot camp experience if he did sign up, though.