We miss ya homie.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/00/JFKofficial.jpg

Pour a little out tonight everyone.

Did he die?

Originally posted by ravenguy2000
Did he die?

41 years ago today (anniversary hence the post).

Originally posted by Sehki


41 years ago today (anniversary hence the post).

Oh, ok. That makes sense. At first I thought you were just being random. But then I figured maybe today was his birthday or death day or something of that nature.

Hey, how about that guy that shot all of those guys in Wisconsin? That was Wisconsin, right?

Originally posted by ravenguy2000


Oh, ok. That makes sense. At first I thought you were just being random. But then I figured maybe today was his birthday or death day or something of that nature.

Hey, how about that guy that shot all of those guys in Wisconsin? That was Wisconsin, right?

Yeah I read about that last night. It seems like they asked him to leave their area, and he unloaded on them. Pretty nuts. And people say we don't need more background checks on gun ownership. :rolleyes:

Today's also my dad's birthday. He was 10 when Kennedy got shot.

I watched a really kick ass episode of Unsolved History on the Discovery Channel the other night... they recreated the shooting and proved that one bullet did in fact kill JFK, and it wasn't a "magic bullet". Very cool.

Its going to be crazy when all the details come out. I heard that he hunted each guy down and shot them within pretty close range. Nuts. Like something out of a movie.

Originally posted by ravenguy2000
Its going to be crazy when all the details come out. I heard that he hunted each guy down and shot them within pretty close range. Nuts. Like something out of a movie.

whoa really

that's fucked up man

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser
I watched a really kick ass episode of Unsolved History on the Discovery Channel the other night... they recreated the shooting and proved that one bullet did in fact kill JFK, and it wasn't a "magic bullet". Very cool.

I'd be interested in seeing that. I've done too many JFK papers in my time.

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser
I watched a really kick ass episode of Unsolved History on the Discovery Channel the other night... they recreated the shooting and proved that one bullet did in fact kill JFK, and it wasn't a "magic bullet". Very cool.

I think they might have played that last year also or else it was something really similar to that.

Originally posted by Sean Casey
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/21/kennedy.game.reut/index.html
Not a lot of replay on that game, I would suspect

Unless they give Oswald rocket launchers and such

Maybe in an aftermarket patch

today's also my Kennedy's 10. He was birthday when shot got dad.

Originally posted by Liquid-J
today's also my Kennedy's 10. He was birthday when shot got dad.
F--

don't judge

I saw a serious of shows (like 10 shows produced by the same person) that were each 1 hour long and each show blamed somebody else in the kennedy assasination. I think the producers point was to say, hey a lot of people wanted kennedy dead, so what?

Some historian person (Paris Flammonde) wrote a book for the anniversary and my mommy's the editor. Hooray. :D

Originally posted by ravenguy2000
Did he die?

<img src=http://www.startribune.com/stonline/images/news6/6jackie1122.l.jpg>

A local guy just finished this painting.

Originally posted by AndySlash
<img src=http://www.startribune.com/stonline/images/news6/6jackie1122.l.jpg>

A local guy just finished this painting.

wow...that's well done

:(

you know... i feel so bad for jackie.

Originally posted by CherubDaydream


wow...that's well done

:(

i thought it was a photo until i looked at her lap and his face looked too flat.

that is really good.

:(

Originally posted by melancholia
you know... i feel so bad for jackie.

she was one of the most beautiful women ever.

I'm memorializing her by naming my paladin in World of Warcraft tomorrow "Onassis" (it was gonna be JackieO but they don't allow multiple capital letters).

Originally posted by melancholia
you know... i feel so bad for jackie. I know... i can't imagine having to deal with something like that. She spent most of that day in the blood splattered dress. if I remember correctly, she was wearing it as LBJ was sworn in. :(

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser
I know... i can't imagine having to deal with something like that. She spent most of that day in the blood splattered dress. if I remember correctly, she was wearing it as LBJ was sworn in. :(

yeah...i think she was. :(

Originally posted by melancholia
you know... i feel so bad for jackie.

i'm really happy that she wasn't around for her sons death... :(

Originally posted by AndySlash
<img src=http://www.startribune.com/stonline/images/news6/6jackie1122.l.jpg>



lol is that kevin costner over there to the right

Originally posted by Randall Sandell


lol is that kevin costner over there to the right

holy shit!!!

:rofl:

Originally posted by AndySlash
A local guy just finished this painting. That is done amazing well, I wish I had talent like that.

As for JFK I always wanted to read about the assassin/himself but never got around to it.
Or see some documentaries or something.

One bullet my arse.

Originally posted by melancholia
you know... i feel so bad for jackie. She was so hot

I dated a girl for 2 years that looked a lot like her, except she didn't have the "eyes too far apart" problem

I have the same initials.

ohh yeeeaaaaahhh /........

Originally posted by Randall Sandell


lol is that kevin costner over there to the right

lmao i guess he didnt know what teh actual bodegaard looked like

page 2 happy birthday fallen lolita and disciple of darcy!!

I thought you mean jk.

Originally posted by Jonny5
I have the same initials.

ohh yeeeaaaaahhh /........ Dude, that's just creepy
Maybe you are the reincarnation of Kennedy.
Are you gunna become president?

Originally posted by jczeroman
One bullet my arse. Dude, for real, get a copy of that Unsolved History episode. It's eye opening.

http://dsc.discovery.com/anthology/unsolvedhistory/dealeyplaza/dealeyplaza.html

It's on again November 19th at 9pm EST.

I saw part of it but had to change it. I mean, they used pieces of rope to simulate the muscles and structure of the neck, it just seemed so cheesy. I put more faith on the cadaver experiments conducted way back when, than I do the ballistics gel and rope those guys were doing.

I do have a question for you though, did they address the timing issue established by the Zapruder film where you see Kennedy react to getting shot in the neck, but Connelly doesnt seem to get hit till like 2 seconds after?

I used to be a JFK nut in my youth :erm

Originally posted by Future Boy
I saw part of it but had to change it. I mean, they used pieces of rope to simulate the muscles and structure of the neck, it just seemed so cheesy. I put more faith on the cadaver experiments conducted way back when, than I do the ballistics gel and rope those guys were doing.

I do have a question for you though, did they address the timing issue established by the Zapruder film where you see Kennedy react to getting shot in the neck, but Connelly doesnt seem to get hit till like 2 seconds after?

I used to be a JFK nut in my youth :erm

1) The rope thing, they only used that at first to prove that the neck tissue would significantly change the bullet. They only used it in the initial testing, if I remember correctly. The "dummies" they used weren't made of ballistics gel; they were models of the human body put together using the closest thing to real tissue their is, complete with bones and organs.

2) the 2 second thing: they did, but I don't recall exactly how they explained it. I don't want to say something that turns out to be completely wrong.

They disproved the grassy knoll pic, they disproved the supposed audio evidence of a 4th shot, and they proved that the bullet wound received by the governor is completely in line with the way that the bullet behaves. When it hit the tissue of JFK's neck and spinal column, it sent the bullet into a spin, causing the entry wound of the governor to resemble a key hole. The bullet continued to tumble when it went into the governor, explaining why it ended up going through his wrist and thigh.

They looked at the tape and reconstructed the scene in a computer simulation, showing that the governor actually wasn't sitting at the same height as JFK, neither was he sitting directly in front of him.

There was a slightly difference when they did the reconstruction though... the bullet, instead of going through the governor's ribcage and into his thigh, ended up bouncing off of his thigh. But when they did an x-ray of the torso, they realized that the bullet had hit 2 ribs instead of 1 as happened in the original shooting, so the bullet didn't have enough velocity to pierce the skin again.

You should watch it again, the conclusion was great. They sent the results of the experimental shooting to a doctor and told him it was just a shooting at a sporting event, and the doctor concluded that 2 bullets had to have caused the damage. His face was sort of red when they showed him the video that it was just one bullet.

has anybody posted/read this yet

....:erm

New Video Game Recreates Kennedy Assassination

Mon Nov 22, 9:38 AM ET Oddly Enough - Reuters


By Ben Berkowitz

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A new video game allows players to simulate the assassination of U.S. President John F. Kennedy.


AP Photo


AP Photo
Slideshow: Video Game Re-Creates Kennedy Assassination




The release of "JFK Reloaded" is timed to coincide with the 41st anniversary of Kennedy's murder in Dallas and was designed to demonstrate a lone gunman was able to kill the president.


"It is despicable," said David Smith, a spokesman for Massachusetts Sen. Edward Kennedy (news, bio, voting record), the late president's brother. He was informed of the game on Friday but declined further comment.


Kirk Ewing, managing director of the Scottish firm Traffic Games, which developed the game, said he understood some people would be horrified at the concept, but he insisted he and his team had nothing but respect for Kennedy and for history.


"We believe that the only thing we're exploiting is new technology," said Ewing, a former documentary filmmaker and senior executive with Scottish developer VIS, responsible for games like "State of Emergency." He said he sent Edward Kennedy a letter before the game's release.


Ewing said the game was designed to undermine the theory there was some shadowy plot behind the assassination. "We believe passionately there was no conspiracy," he said.


Traffic Games said the objective was for a player to fire three shots at Kennedy's motorcade from assassin Lee Harvey Oswald's digitally recreated sixth-floor perch in the Texas School Book Depository.


Points are awarded or subtracted based on how accurately the shots match the official version of events as documented in by the Warren Commission, which investigated Kennedy's assassination.


Shooting the image of Kennedy in the right spots in the right sequence adds to the score, while "errors" like shooting first lady Jacqueline Kennedy lead to deductions.


Each shot can be replayed in slow motion, and the bullets can be tracked as they travel and pass through Kennedy's digitally recreated body. Players can choose to see blood by pressing a "blood effects" option.


Players can view the motorcade from a number of angles, including the perspective of filmmaker Abraham Zapruder and a view from the "grassy knoll" where some conspiracy theorists believe a second gunman was stationed.


The game will be available via download for $9.99.

Just watch Oliver Stone's JFK. He very soundly shuts down the single-bullet theory.

Again, LBJ OKd the hit because Oswalt owed the Texas Mafia money for a failed nightclub venture. The second shooter was wearing a Dallas Police Department uniform on the grassy noll. Oswalt was set up by Ruby.

yeah i usually subscribe to the ockham's razor theory; i usually dont pay heed to conspiracies--but the grassy knowl one is definitely valid. if there is no conspiracy then how come the reports on the assasination aren't going to be available until like 30 yrs or so (i forget the exact date they'll be available to the public. but it's ludicrous)

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser


1) They only used it in the initial testing, if I remember correctly.


Ah, see I didnt know that. When I saw them leave like 6 inches of empty space between the ballistic slabs to simulate the lungs I thought "Very scientific". Also, at one point I remember seeing them compare their bullet to pictures of the Magic Bullet, and while their bullet was warped at the base, they ignored it, and compared the tips in close ups and were like "We're matching up pretty good." I think that was when I decided to change it.

Ill try and sit through it, but I'm stubborn enough it probably wont change my mind.

How close did theirs look to this? Considering Connelly was left with fragments in his body, the thing looks pretty good to me.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/terrorists_spies/assassins/jfk/5-2-The-Magic-Bullet.jpg

http://www.jfk-info.com/fragment.htm

I was trying to find a pic of the cadaver test shots, and ran across this, which makes the point better than I could.

Personally, I subscribe to the "Everybody in Dallas did it" theory.

http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/orvillenixfilm.gif

Originally posted by sppunk
Just watch Oliver Stone's JFK. He very soundly shuts down the single-bullet theory.

Again, LBJ OKd the hit because Oswalt owed the Texas Mafia money for a failed nightclub venture. The second shooter was wearing a Dallas Police Department uniform on the grassy noll. Oswalt was set up by Ruby. Seriously, watch that show before you say "It's not possible."

Originally posted by sppunk
Just watch Oliver Stone's JFK. He very soundly shuts down the single-bullet theory.

Again, LBJ OKd the hit because Oswalt owed the Texas Mafia money for a failed nightclub venture. The second shooter was wearing a Dallas Police Department uniform on the grassy noll. Oswalt was set up by Ruby. Oh, and they picked apart that grassy knoll pic and found proved it wasn't real. Technology nowadays is a bit better than it was back then....

Originally posted by Future Boy


Ah, see I didnt know that. When I saw them leave like 6 inches of empty space between the ballistic slabs to simulate the lungs I thought "Very scientific". Also, at one point I remember seeing them compare their bullet to pictures of the Magic Bullet, and while their bullet was warped at the base, they ignored it, and compared the tips in close ups and were like "We're matching up pretty good." I think that was when I decided to change it.

Ill try and sit through it, but I'm stubborn enough it probably wont change my mind.

How close did theirs look to this? Considering Connelly was left with fragments in his body, the thing looks pretty good to me.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/terrorists_spies/assassins/jfk/5-2-The-Magic-Bullet.jpg That specific brand of bullet takes a lickin' dude. They fired the same type of bullet from the same type of gun into a wooden log, and it went a couple of feet and looked totally pristine. After the experiment with the two lifelike torsos, the bullet was a bit warped, but I would say it was because it hit more ribs than it was supposed to. To prove this, they shot a bullet through a pig bone, and the bullet warped severely. And since the original bullet barely clipped a rib... it's not entirely impossible that the bullet would have no markings on it other than the fingerprint of the rifle.

I think the JFK assassination was a work of art. We'll never really know who it was, leaving it open to interpretation. It's fucking beautiful, man.

Originally posted by sppunk
Just watch Oliver Stone's JFK. He very soundly shuts down the single-bullet theory.

Again, LBJ OKd the hit because Oswalt owed the Texas Mafia money for a failed nightclub venture. The second shooter was wearing a Dallas Police Department uniform on the grassy noll. Oswalt was set up by Ruby.


<font color=#007AAA face="courier new">I can't believe you just sited an Oliver Stone movie like it was a documentary. :noway:</font>

BACK, AND TO THE RIGHT
BACK, AND TO THE RIGHT
BACK, AND TO THE RIGHT
BACK, AND TO THE RIGHT
BACK, AND TO THE RIGHT
BACK, AND TO THE RIGHT
BACK, AND TO THE RIGHT
BACK, AND TO THE RIGHT
BACK, AND TO THE RIGHT

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son
BACK, AND TO THE RIGHT
BACK, AND TO THE RIGHT
BACK, AND TO THE RIGHT
BACK, AND TO THE RIGHT
BACK, AND TO THE RIGHT
BACK, AND TO THE RIGHT
BACK, AND TO THE RIGHT
BACK, AND TO THE RIGHT
BACK, AND TO THE RIGHT

left.

Originally posted by Sehki


left. I wasn't quoting JFK

<font color=#007AAA face="courier new">IT WAS ROGER CLEMENS FROM THE GRASSY NOLL.</font>

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son
I wasn't quoting JFK

Seinfeld?

Originally posted by Trotskilicious



<font color=#007AAA face="courier new">I can't believe you just sited an Oliver Stone movie like it was a documentary. :noway:</font> It sure beats the living fuck out of the Warren Commission, don't you think?

1) Shooting from the back, your head won't go back and to the left.
2) The 'kill shot' was on the opposite side of Kennedy's head than Oswalt's position.

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser
That specific brand of bullet takes a lickin' dude. They fired the same type of bullet from the same type of gun into a wooden log, and it went a couple of feet and looked totally pristine. After the experiment with the two lifelike torsos, the bullet was a bit warped, but I would say it was because it hit more ribs than it was supposed to. To prove this, they shot a bullet through a pig bone, and the bullet warped severely. And since the original bullet barely clipped a rib... it's not entirely impossible that the bullet would have no markings on it other than the fingerprint of the rifle.

Yeah but according to the theory it did hit bone twice,it hit rib and then went and broke his wrist and then lodged in his thigh till it wanted out and was found in the stretcher. In that link I posted it shows the fragments removed from Connellys wrist and also the testimony that states there are still smaller fragments left in Connelly. The pictures of the removed fragments are pretty damning on there own, let alone there still being fragments in his body.

Originally posted by sppunk
1) Shooting from the back, your head won't go back and to the left.

Its been shown by many experiments that the expulsion of stuff (brain matter, blood, gases, etc.) from the exit wound causes something like a "jet propulsion" type phenomenon, which sends force away from the shooter and thus pushes the target back towards where the bullet came from. Hence, a shot from back left would cause a person's head to go back and to the left.

There may have been a conspiracy, but after going to Dallas last year and looking out of the window at the Book Depository, I'm pretty sure that Oswald got the kill. I don't know if he got off three aimed shots in 6 seconds, but it wasn't that tough a shot. And all he needed was one.

Originally posted by Corganist

Its been shown by many experiments that the expulsion of stuff (brain matter, blood, gases, etc.) from the exit wound causes something like a "jet propulsion" type phenomenon, which sends force away from the shooter and thus pushes the target back towards where the bullet came from. Hence, a shot from back left would cause a person's head to go back and to the left.


Then he should have gone back and to the right, cause thats where Oswald was.

Not to mention that the scope on his rifle wasnt mounted and aligned right. If anything the "jet propulsion" effect should be countered by the force of the initial hit anyway, and the subject wouldnt move at all.

"I don't know if he got off three aimed shots in 6 seconds, but it wasn't that tough a shot. And all he needed was one."

His scope was off, he wasnt a great shot, and expert marksmen werent able to duplicate it with correct equipment.

Originally posted by Future Boy
Not to mention that the scope on his rifle wasnt mounted and aligned right. If anything the "jet propulsion" effect should be countered by the force of the initial hit anyway, and the subject wouldnt move at all.

"I don't know if he got off three aimed shots in 6 seconds, but it wasn't that tough a shot. And all he needed was one."

His scope was off, he wasnt a great shot, and expert marksmen werent able to duplicate it with correct equipment.

Maybe I'm crazy.... but just looking at the physics of it... he was shooting from so far away and so high up, why would it make a difference if he was right or left handed? He could have hit the same spot either way. Someone explain this to me.

Also, it has been recreated, like I said earlier. :mad:

Originally posted by Future Boy


Yeah but according to the theory it did hit bone twice,it hit rib and then went and broke his wrist and then lodged in his thigh till it wanted out and was found in the stretcher. In that link I posted it shows the fragments removed from Connellys wrist and also the testimony that states there are still smaller fragments left in Connelly. The pictures of the removed fragments are pretty damning on there own, let alone there still being fragments in his body. Going through two rib bones is different from hitting one rib then going through the wrist... his wrist was supposedly resting on his thigh, which would explain why it would have been able to get there. In the experiment, they had it set up slightly different...

Anyway, it's impossible to set the whole thing up right, considering how far away the shooter was... but I still believe it's totally plausible that it was one bullet, and as someone said earlier, Ockam's Razor.

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser


Maybe I'm crazy.... but just looking at the physics of it... he was shooting from so far away and so high up, why would it make a difference if he was right or left handed? He could have hit the same spot either way. Someone explain this to me.

Also, it has been recreated, like I said earlier. :mad:

Its not that he was right or left handed, it's wether the shot came from the right side of the presidents body, or the left side, Oswald was on his right, so even going by the "jet propulsion" theory, the president would have gone back and to the right, not left.

And what I meant was they wernt able to recreate all the shots, all the wounds, in that time frame. Especially considering his scope was off.

Originally posted by Future Boy


Then he should have gone back and to the right, cause thats where Oswald was.
Right, but you also have to take into account the neurological effect of having half your brain blown out too. Even while the jet effect pushed Kennedy's head back (after the bullet's impact knocked his head briefly forward), he also went into a violent spasm when the bullet hit...in which he pretty violently stiffened up. That's what caused the motion to the left rather than the right.

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser
In the experiment, they had it set up slightly different...

This reminded me of an old movie or something. Some guy was selling lightning rod's claiming in the event of a litning strike the house wouldn't catch fire. So he had a little house model and said, "this is what would happen without the rod" and was about to set it on fire, and then said "lets just pour a little gasoline on for effect."

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser
Anyway, it's impossible to set the whole thing up right, considering how far away the shooter was... but I still believe it's totally plausible that it was one bullet, and as someone said earlier, Ockam's Razor.

Is it possible one bullet could do all those wounds, yes, I guess. But not the bullet in question (did you see how much was taken out of Connellys wrist) and not on the day or time established by the Zapruder film. Theres too much other stuff to ignore. Ockam's Razor- taking everything into account the easiest explanation is a second shooter, the magic bullet theory is anything but the easiest explanation.

Originally posted by Corganist

Right, but you also have to take into account the neurological effect of having half your brain blown out too. Even while the jet effect pushed Kennedy's head back (after the bullet's impact knocked his head briefly forward), he also went into a violent spasm when the bullet hit...in which he pretty violently stiffened up. That's what caused the motion to the left rather than the right.

:eek:This is a new one for me.

If anything the video shows that he immediately goes limp, he doesnt stiffen up and spasm backward, he didnt have a seizure or something. The motion is mostly his head snapping backward, followed slightly by his upper body.

Originally posted by Future Boy


:eek:This is a new one for me.

If anything the video shows that he immediately goes limp, he doesnt stiffen up and spasm backward, he didnt have a seizure or something. The motion is mostly his head snapping backward, followed slightly by his upper body.
Well, we are talking about fractions of seconds here. The neurological reaction probably didn't take up more than a couple of frames of the Zapruder film. It was a very quick burst of neurological activity in reaction to the shot...sort of an abbreviated fight or flight response. But it was enough to form the motion seen in the video.

But I am definitely an amateur at all this JFK stuff, so I could be wrong. (I'm much more knowlegeable on the Lincoln Assassination than this one.)I definitely entertain the idea that there were multiple shooters...and I'm even more willing to bet that someone put Oswald up to it. But I think at the very least Oswald got the kill shot.

Originally posted by Future Boy


:eek:This is a new one for me.

If anything the video shows that he immediately goes limp, he doesnt stiffen up and spasm backward, he didnt have a seizure or something. The motion is mostly his head snapping backward, followed slightly by his upper body. What? It's obvious he had a very serious reaction when it hit... he didn't go limp at all, rather he stiffened up, his fists went to his throat (I've heard this explained by the fact that the bullet hit a certain part of his spine, causing an involuntary reaction..) and he didn't slump down for at least a few seconds if not more.....

Originally posted by Future Boy


This reminded me of an old movie or something. Some guy was selling lightning rod's claiming in the event of a litning strike the house wouldn't catch fire. So he had a little house model and said, "this is what would happen without the rod" and was about to set it on fire, and then said "lets just pour a little gasoline on for effect."



Is it possible one bullet could do all those wounds, yes, I guess. But not the bullet in question (did you see how much was taken out of Connellys wrist) and not on the day or time established by the Zapruder film. Theres too much other stuff to ignore. Ockam's Razor- taking everything into account the easiest explanation is a second shooter, the magic bullet theory is anything but the easiest explanation.

I'm telling you, I suck at explaining this stuff. Watch the show.

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser
What? It's obvious he had a very serious reaction when it hit... he didn't go limp at all, rather he stiffened up, his fists went to his throat (I've heard this explained by the fact that the bullet hit a certain part of his spine, causing an involuntary reaction..) and he didn't slump down for at least a few seconds if not more.....

Your talking about the magic bullet shot, hes talking about the kill shot, in which he pretty much went limp.

Originally posted by Future Boy


Your talking about the magic bullet shot, hes talking about the kill shot, in which he pretty much went limp. *slaps forehead* don't pay attention to me, I'm an idiot.