View Full Version : Methusela


Dead
08-29-2004, 10:47 PM
Would you call this an acoustic song as opposed to electric? It has piano, and then what sounds like acoustic guitar to me. I'm trying to split MCIS demos 1 & 2 (& 3) into acoustic/electric.

Dead
08-29-2004, 10:48 PM
I'm putting piano and violin strings stuff into the acoustic category.

Dead
08-29-2004, 10:51 PM
If you want you can help sort them out cause I am no musician and suck.

Dead
08-29-2004, 10:56 PM
MCIS DEMOS I

Stumbleine
Jupiter's Lament
Lily
To Forgive
BWBW
Here Is No Why
Galapogos
Frantic Ab Groove
Autumn Nocturne
Blank
Rotten Apples
Ugly
Wishing You Were
Mellon Collie ...
Meladori Magpie
Thirty-three
Beautiful
Marquis In Spades

MCIS DEMOS II

Bullet with Butterfly Wings
Set the Ray to Jerry
So Very Sad About Us
Jellybelly
Mouths of Babes
Here Is No Why 1
God
Love
For Martha
Tonight, Tonight
Methusela
Depresso
Zero 1
Zero 2
Here Is No Why 2
Cherry
Beautiful
instrumental

MCIS DEMOS III (new tracks only)

Feelium
God

Dead
08-29-2004, 11:00 PM
MCIS I

All acoustic except for Frantic Ab Groove, Marquis In Spades, Beautiful

MCIS II

All electric (don't know about Methusela)

MCIS III

Both songs electric



Let me know if I have anything wrong. Thanks.

Dead
08-29-2004, 11:07 PM
Oh man I suck, I looked at this topic and it said 4 replies and I said Alright! and then looked and they were all me. :erm

Firmament
08-29-2004, 11:11 PM
you may be the first netphorian since suze to post five consecuative, legitimate. replies to you're own thread.

Irridescent Fairysex
08-29-2004, 11:11 PM
what's up?

Dead
08-29-2004, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by Firmament
legitimate
Thank you. :)

tcm
08-30-2004, 12:04 AM
Methusela is most definitely acoustic.

also, you should stop calling the ninth song on MCIS Demos II "For Martha" and start calling it "Wishing You Were".

Dead
08-30-2004, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by tcm
Methusela is most definitely acoustic.

also, you should stop calling the ninth song on MCIS Demos II "For Martha" and start calling it "Wishing You Were".
It has the exact same part as For Martha dude! But I'll compare it, just a sec.

Dead
08-30-2004, 12:49 AM
I don't hear a similarity.

Dead
08-30-2004, 12:51 AM
And who rated my thread 1 star? BASTARDS!!!! 5 stars!!

tcm
08-30-2004, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by Dead
It has the exact same part as For Martha dude!
i know, but they just recycled the riff for For Martha. it's really a full band arrangement for Wishing You Were. you can sing the lyrics over it, if you're so inclined.

Dead
08-30-2004, 01:01 AM
But you could sing lyrics over a lot of music and have it sound ok. I admit I did try that and it sounded alright. But I think it's a huge assumption unless there's some other evidence or some kind of musical relation that I can't perceive because I don't know anything about music.

tcm
08-30-2004, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by Dead
But you could sing lyrics over a lot of music and have it sound ok. I admit I did try that and it sounded alright. But I think it's a huge assumption unless there's some other evidence or some kind of musical relation that I can't perceive because I don't know anything about music.
note where the pauses are, where they hold a note longer. there's 3 of them, and they match up with the pauses in Wishing You Were. for instance, the first one in the instrumental is at about 1:05, where Billy would sing "spy you from... afar."
the chords are basically the same and the changes are all at the same places.

tcm
08-30-2004, 01:14 AM
actually, i think they did change the key, but i don't know that much about music either.

Dead
08-30-2004, 01:22 AM
We need to call in an expert here.

wpc33
08-30-2004, 02:17 AM
Where's Mayfair when you need 'im?

CherubDaydream
08-30-2004, 03:25 AM
nice thread
i'd say acoustic

Dead
08-30-2004, 03:44 AM
Maybe it's one of those things where he's playing on an unplugged electric guitar cause it sounds a bit twangy or whatever. Eh I'm throwing it in the acoustic category. We sure do have a lot of demos. There's the whole Gravity Demos besides these.

Awesome. I think that Autumn Nocturne should have been on Judas O. :cool:

I just noticed that there was no previously unreleased MCIS era stuff on Judas. Just b-sides.

CherubDaydream
08-30-2004, 07:46 AM
the MCIS Demos II are bass-tastic :)

tcm
08-30-2004, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by Dead
Maybe it's one of those things where he's playing on an unplugged electric guitar cause it sounds a bit twangy or whatever.
i believe it's a 12-string acoustic. they're twangy.

http://www.my-mistake.net/infinitepics/tafh/tafh017.jpg

Cool As Ice Cream
08-30-2004, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by tcm
also, you should stop calling the ninth song on MCIS Demos II "For Martha" and start calling it "Wishing You Were". Never realized this before.

Better warn the spfc!!!

Dead
08-30-2004, 11:20 AM
Dude I don't think it's the same song. I would try merging them but FOR MARTHA! Is 1 minute longer. Adjusting would be a pain in the buttocks.

CherubDaydream
08-30-2004, 11:23 AM
oh fuck now i get it. the "wishing you were" thing is the demo for the later "but for the grace of love" part...
geez this is interesting!

tcm
08-30-2004, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Dead
Dude I don't think it's the same song.
dude you're wrong.

jack_kerouac03
08-30-2004, 11:46 AM
I'm not up on my demos . . .

Wishing You Were was spilt up into two songs, right? They used part of it in For Martha, and used part of it on the end of The Aeroplane Flies High. There is a full version with lyrics?

edit: the spfc is my friend ;)

jack_kerouac03
08-30-2004, 11:58 AM
Isn't there a song on the Gravity Demos that sounds alot like Endless Summer? (or is it ride a black swan?)

Its really cool that B0lly and crew went back and took unused riffs and little parts and fit them into other songs.

Now this is really off-topic, but does anyone know if it was Billy or Mike Garson that wrote Le Duex Machina?

I was watching the DVD of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars, it was the last performance Bowie did. Mike Garson plays a piano part that sounds alot like Le Duex Machina - and get this - the lead guitar player plays a jam that sounds almost *exactly* like the Mary, Star riff.

sweet17
08-30-2004, 12:31 PM
umm, IIRC, the original tracklisting circulating with the demos listed it as Wishing You Were.

Which makes sense because when it was recorded, BILLY'S MOM WASN'T DEAD.

and j_k--perhaps more interesting is that Billy's concept/idea of performing of Glass and the Machines of God pretty much is a complete rehash of the Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders From Mars. Maybe it's not a coincidence? If I were to guess, however, I'd say the Le Deux Machina on the acoustic demos was Billy, but the piano version was Mike Garson rocking the improv. But that's a guess.

CherubDaydream
08-30-2004, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by jack_kerouac03
Isn't there a song on the Gravity Demos that sounds alot like Endless Summer? (or is it ride a black swan?)



That would be A/Ab/E/B/F#
Endless Summer ;)

tcm
08-30-2004, 12:50 PM
i think the Endless Summer thing is a complete coincidence. it's like two damn chords that happen to be the same.

CherubDaydream
08-30-2004, 12:55 PM
i think so too...it just happens that chords get used twice...

Dead
08-30-2004, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by sweet17
BILLY'S MOM WASN'T DEAD.
You dumbass.

Dead
08-30-2004, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by tcm
i think the Endless Summer thing is a complete coincidence. it's like two damn chords that happen to be the same.
They sound EXACTLY the same. I checked a few months ago. Maybe he didn't realize it but it's the same part.

Dead
08-30-2004, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by sweet17
umm, IIRC, the original tracklisting circulating with the demos listed it as Wishing You Were.

I thought it was unknown instrumental. I could be wrong on that one. Someone ask Dave Mead.

Dead
08-30-2004, 02:26 PM
I wish I remembered who/where I got this from, but:


This is the tracklisting I got from D. Asselin..and I'm pretty sure it's
correct.

1. Bullet with Butterfly Wings (instrumental) 4:20
2. Set the Ray to Jerry (instrumental) 4:28
3. So Very Sad About Us (instrumental) 3:17
4. Jellybelly (instrumental) 3:23
5. Mouths of Babes (instrumental) 3:26
6. Here Is No Why (instrumental) 3:51
7. God (instrumental) 3:02
8. Love (instrumental) 4:11
9. 'For Martha' jam (instrumental) 3:58
10. Tonight, Tonight (instrumental) 4:12
11. Methusela (w/ vocals) 4:10
12. Depresso 2:53
13. Zero (instrumental) 3:19
14. Zero (instrumental) 3:26
15. Here Is No Why (w/ vocals) 3:50
16. Cherry (instrumental) 3:04
17. Beautiful (w/ vocals) 3:49
18. ? (instrumental) 3:56


There ya go.

The file is dated 2000/7/1.

tcm
08-30-2004, 04:35 PM
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=20000630214603.01170.00000694%40ng-fw1.aol.com

note message 10, in particular. ;)

Dead
08-30-2004, 04:54 PM
Good link. But none of them know either. Nice discussion though. Was there no track listing on the cassette? I'm find with not calling it For Martha, but I'm not totally convinced that it's Wishing you were.

Briggeman said in another post that he wasn't sure.

sweet17
08-30-2004, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Dead
You dumbass.

How do you figure? Am I wrong?

ChrisHill
08-30-2004, 06:56 PM
Before For Martha came out, the demo song was always referred to as Wishing You Were. Wishing You Were was never released (or probably even recorded with the full band), and Billy later used the riff as the basis for For Martha. That doesn't mean they're the same song, though. Since Wishing You Were has its own lyrics, I would tend to call them separate songs. Unlike Virex > The Imploding Voice, where "Virex" was just a working title for a song they'd release a few months later with slightly different lyrics, the time between WYW and For Martha and the drastic change in lyrics and song style would push me towards keeping the different names.

tcm
08-30-2004, 07:16 PM
nobody said they're the same song. they're two different songs that have a riff in common. but the demo we're talking about is not a demo of For Martha, it is a demo of Wishing You Were. the structure of the song is identical to the piano-and-vocals demo of WYW.

ChrisHill
08-30-2004, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by tcm
nobody said they're the same song. they're two different songs that have a riff in common. but the demo we're talking about is not a demo of For Martha, it is a demo of Wishing You Were. the structure of the song is identical to the piano-and-vocals demo of WYW.

Whoops, misread the first page and thought everyone was talking about the piano-and-vocals WYW from the original MCIS Demo tape.

sweet17
08-30-2004, 08:10 PM
It seems pretty plain to me. For Martha evolved from the WYW demo. I don't see why there's a two-page topic on it.

jack_kerouac03
08-30-2004, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by sweet17
I don't see why there's a two-page topic on it.

its either this or another "what if the guy from smashing pumpkins lost his car keys" thread.

Cool As Ice Cream
08-30-2004, 08:46 PM
Good thread.

Dead
08-30-2004, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by sweet17

How do you figure? Am I wrong?
I can't answer you cause I forgot what this was about and I don't want to go back to page 1.

Dead
08-30-2004, 10:54 PM
I think some people got confused and thought I was saying that the instrumental was a song named For Martha. I listed it that way cause as far as I knew it was untitled and everyone refers to it as For Martha since it has the same exact part (and also I copy+pasted that off spfc). It's just something to call it. If it's definitely an instrumental of Wishing You Were then that's obviously the name of it. I didn't know that's what it was, still not sure besides what Briggeman said. But I don't know crap about chord changes and stuff so I guess I'm not that qualified to say.

I also was not disputing the fact that it could be an instrumental of Wishing You Were, I just didn't see any reason to say that's what it is for sure.

And that's all I have to say about that.

sweet17
08-31-2004, 06:56 AM
ah. ok. i misunderstood you. my apologies.

i don't know if a song should be labelled after something it would later, eventually be called if that wasn't the name it was under when it was recorded. otherwise, the gravity demos would have a very different tracklisting. it seems silly to me to have the song labelled as For Martha when Martha was still a couple of years away from dying, and thus inspiring the song as For Martha.

i think there's enough reasonable doubt that For Martha did evolve from Wishing You Were (including an admission from the doubtful D4 that this particular recording is, at the very least, an evolution of WYW towards what would eventually be For Martha) that it would be safe to label it as Wishing You Were (Rock Instrumental).

i disagree with the notion of referring to it as For Martha for the same reasons i'd argue why Disconnected shouldn't be called The Aeroplane Flies High. but, ultimately, it's your cd and you can list it however you want.


(and yes, this thread is far better than the Car Keys thread)

Dead
08-31-2004, 03:09 PM
I think I'm renaming this song Confusela.

Ugly
09-01-2004, 03:37 PM
Metheusa is a freakin gem. Seriously I think its the best demo never released SP song ever.

They should have put this on Judas O.

Dead
09-01-2004, 03:38 PM
I hate it.

Ugly
09-01-2004, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Dead
I hate it.

Go hug a puppy then listen to it. you'll like it.

Dead
09-01-2004, 03:48 PM
It sounds bad and the lyrics aren't good and it is just not good. There's a little part I like.. I'll find the lyrics on spfc even tho they'll probably be wrong.

I like this short part:

so tell me what you need
i'll be watching out for you
there are no enemies
only dangerous friends
you grew up very fast
i didn't think i'd miss a thing
'course nothing ever lasts

But I don't like the rest of the song.

CherubDaydream
09-01-2004, 04:20 PM
by the way, thanks Dead for telling me that those two WYW songs are different versions (MCIS Demos I and III). i love them!

C33
09-01-2004, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by Dead
Methusela
Originally posted by Irridescent Fairysex

iz yuo!!!

ChrisHill
09-01-2004, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by Dead
I like this short part:

so tell me what you need
i'll be watching out for you
there are no enemies
only dangerous friends
you grew up very fast
i didn't think i'd miss a thing
'course nothing ever lasts
[/B]

That part makes the song for me. There's something about the way it's recorded or the way Billy sings it that is really solid. I like the song as a whole, but this part really makes it a good song rather than just an average song IMHO.

Dead
09-01-2004, 10:01 PM
Dude, your sig is uber leet! :rockon:

tcm
09-09-2004, 08:11 PM
so anyway. here's my own shitty demonstration/cover of Wishing You Were. hope this helps.

Dead
09-10-2004, 12:48 AM
Convincing!

Cool As Ice Cream
09-11-2004, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by CherubDaydream
by the way, thanks Dead for telling me that those two WYW songs are different versions (MCIS Demos I and III). i love them! I didn't know WYW was on MCIS Demos III...

CherubDaydream
09-11-2004, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by CoolAsIceCream
I didn't know WYW was on MCIS Demos III...

it's not
also, what is the deal about those MCIS Demos III?! they're not on spfc.org and not verified anywhere...:confused:

Dead
09-11-2004, 10:51 AM
I verified them!

Cecil
09-11-2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by tcm
so anyway. here's my own shitty demonstration/cover of Wishing You Were. hope this helps.


nice job man, way to make your case!

Cool As Ice Cream
09-11-2004, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by CherubDaydream
it's notdidn't you just talk about WYW on MCIS Demos III? :confused:

Cool As Ice Cream
09-11-2004, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by CherubDaydream
also, what is the deal about those MCIS Demos III?!
http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=335
Originally posted by Smiley
It was an upgrade of the MCIS acoustic demos (a.k.a. "Billy's Home Demos") with two extra tracks - Feelium and an instrumental of God (electric). It was missing some of the acoustic demos, but the whole thing was higher quality than what was previously available.
http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55556&pagenumber=4
Originally posted by Dead
MCIS Demos III is from a totally separate tape that has written on on it "Demos For D'arcy" and has half of the tracks from MCIS Demos I on it, plus Feelium and God. This God appears to be unrelated to the song on the Zero single. I heard that side B of MCIS Demos III was taped over with The Cardigans or else we would have all the songs on MCIS Demos I in better quality instead of half, plus maybe some more bonuses.

Dead
09-11-2004, 03:31 PM
I don't know about you guys, but I would rather have a tape of the Cardigans than an upgrade of Strollin'!!!!! :crazy:

Cool As Ice Cream
09-11-2004, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Dead
I verified them! Thanks a lot, mister K.

CherubDaydream
09-12-2004, 06:25 AM
Thank you, CoolAsIceCream!!
and Dead ;)

everything is clear now :)

you know, trond (webmaster from the BC board) hold back his part of the story by saying "They are fake" :erm

Dead
09-13-2004, 12:00 PM
re: Wishing You Were, I am convinced.