If this isn't on the album, somebody's going to get punched in the skull.

Listening to that 1:24 demo I just got *really* giddy, like I did when I first heard that short clip of Muzzle on the MTV Rocumentary in 1995 before the album came out.

dave,

please tell me ... what happened to "pony express"?

Did you get any other demos, Dave?

abyopp-
I have no idea... and check this out: I'm not even sure what Pony Express is! Is that one of those December songs that was obnoxiously long? I have actually made an effort to be Zwan-free for most of the last year. Aside from the November west coast shows, I haven't listened to any live stuff. Not because I don't want to, but because I want to hear the songs on the album as they were intended, not as works-in-progress.

Tim-
I'm not elite anymore... I downloaded this demo from the hub. There were 3 things: an instrumental clip, Number of the Beast, and a minute long chunk from Shining Path. Maybe they're not even demos and I have been tricked by internet fraudsters!

Originally posted by Pmack
If this isn't on the album, somebody's going to get punched in the skull.


Hear, hear. I have *really* started to appreciate this song more over the last month or so.

-Brandon

I agree. Its got a wonderful warmth to it, and it had a great feel to it when they performed it live. It was immediately one of my favorites.

But what really worries me is that Glorious has been appearing on many tentative lists. I think its a terrible song.

And Cast a Stone isn't that great either.

'pony express' is a gorgeous song that billy opened to start the 12.13.01 2nd show. only played one or two more times. completely beautiful. my favorite of the djali zwan batch ....

who am i kidding, it's my favorite song of zwan ... favorite billy song since 98.

any ideas?

well. i thought i'd rank my favorites of the November 01 shows in order. honestly.

Jesus
El Sol
Glorious
What Have They Done to Me
Chrysanthemum
Never Give Up
The Shining Path
Sorrow
The Empty Sea
My Life and Times
Cast a Stone
Permanence

yeah. and that's what i think of The Shining Path.

Jesus and Glorious both have opening riffs that make me giddy to hear them. live especially. on 4/05/02 when Jesus started, i was pretty damn elated and excited. heh. oh well. nevermind. i'll go back to expecting the Zwan album to be a huge disappointment again now.

Originally posted by Pmack
If this isn't on the album, somebody's going to get punched in the skull.

Listening to that 1:24 demo I just got *really* giddy, like I did when I first heard that short clip of Muzzle on the MTV Rocumentary in 1995 before the album came out.

Underrated, underrated. I get the feeling that there's been a wholesale abandonment of stuff that we saw last November. And I'm okay with that, but I swear, I'm going to miss that song unless it somehow made the cut. Originally, I liked it more than Jesus I, even. It's one of those songs that somehow makes you want to soar with optimism but then bow with humility at the same time.

I just hope that Shining Path is at least available in B-side form.

It is not like you we should be worried about the album being the best collection of the material available. After Machina II I have lost all confidence in BC's ability to pick songs for an album.

And oh yeah, 'Honestly' sounds like fucking Hanson. I let my roommate hear the loop of the chorus and he seemed to think it was either a fake or a joke. Unfortunatley it is neither.

Chris Carter
carter@tamu.edu

Originally posted by CandyPotter
I get the feeling that there's been a wholesale abandonment of stuff that we saw last November. .

I have a terrible feeling that the album will be comprised by the underwhelming stuff of November and April, like Never Give Up, What Have they Done to Me, Lyric, etc.

But then, sometimes I wonder how well some of my favorites would translate to the stuido, like Shining Path or WP or what have you.

Originally posted by CandyPotter
Underrated, underrated. I get the feeling that there's been a wholesale abandonment of stuff that we saw last November.

yeah. it's too bad that their 3rd batch of songs were mostly boring, huh?

here are a few songs that i think should be locks for the album ....

emphasis on "i think", but i have major doubts. no particular order

1. pony express
2. wasting time
3. endless summer
4. settle down
5. a new poetry
6. empty sea
7. glorious
8. jesus, i
9. shining path
10. permanence
11. rivers we can't cross
12. something new
13. " "
14. " "

Originally posted by abyopp
1. pony express
2. wasting time
3. endless summer
4. settle down
5. a new poetry
6. empty sea
7. glorious
8. jesus, i
9. shining path
10. permanence
11. rivers we can't cross
12. something new
13. " "
14. " "

fucking awful, but i bet BC will do even worse at picking them.

A New Poetry? Permanence? are you shitting me? are you telling me Wasting Time is better than El Sol?

yes, Christ. i am.

try not to forget that you are not the supreme being of the fan base.

Originally posted by Irrelevant
well. i thought i'd rank my favorites of the November 01 shows in order. honestly.

Jesus
El Sol
Glorious
What Have They Done to Me
Chrysanthemum
Never Give Up
The Shining Path
Sorrow
The Empty Sea
My Life and Times
Cast a Stone
Permanence

yeah. and that's what i think of The Shining Path.

Jesus and Glorious both have opening riffs that make me giddy to hear them. live especially. on 4/05/02 when Jesus started, i was pretty damn elated and excited. heh. oh well. nevermind. i'll go back to expecting the Zwan album to be a huge disappointment again now.

God those first shows were so wild. I remember feeling difference in mine and Corgan's age for the first time - that his influences were really of an older generation. I never had an older brother, but watching Zwan take the stage and play their first handful of songs, I felt like I accidentally wandered into my older brother's bedroom while he was listening to records with his pals. I don't know... when you're a little girl, you regard older boys with a weird mixed sense of awe and admiration and fear and insecurity.... it made me think of boys in torn jeans and Vans sneakers riding BMX bikes.

Obviously there's been a change in the feeling of the band in that respect since Paz joined, and it's not like I'm going to say that I lament any kind of a change as a loss, but I think it's fair to say that it was a cool, new, interesting feeling, and I sort of wish I could still feel it.

Anyhow. I think that with the exceptions of Spilled Milk and the covers, alot of the old songs should make it to a record. Prioritizing:

1)Jesus, I: Duh.
2)Glorious: Catchy in the best way. For the radio.
3)Shining Path: What he said.
4)El Sol: Maybe for a Bside.

Cast a Stone... I've never liked it. But it's obvious the band likes it. Otherwise they wouldn't be playing it so much.

Crysanthemum... I think the most overrated song they did. What it lacks in development, it makes up for in exuberance... but I'm not so cheap.

Originally posted by abyopp
try not to forget that you are not the supreme being of the fan base.

TBYW.

Originally posted by CandyPotter
Anyhow. I think that with the exceptions of Spilled Milk and the covers, alot of the old songs should make it to a record.

it's been so long since i listened to Zwan, that i forgot about Spilled Milk being played at those shows. it's my favorite Zwan song, period.

Originally posted by Irrelevant


it's been so long since i listened to Zwan, that i forgot about Spilled Milk being played at those shows. it's my favorite Zwan song, period.

Well yeah. I mean, if you loved TSP, you love catharsis, and if you love catharsis, Spilled Milk makes your eyes roll back into your head. But it's got no place on a record.

About your other comment, yeah. After those Midwest shows, there was something that left me missing something at the DD shows. But only part of the time. A New Poetry, Signal This Strong, Baby Let's rock came right out of the womb and kicked ass. Lyric, Endless Summer, Settle Down, and Rivers We Can't Cross I think got better, through whatever process Jamboree and Hideout offered them. But really, the killer from those shows was to see the development of Jesus I. It not only developed over the course of a week, but it made a shocking quantum leap on the last night that was worth a trip to IL in and of itself.

are these demos for real then?

or are they the songs people cleaned up a while back and tried to pass off as studio?

how long was number of the beast? is it the loop they play at the Spun website?

I'm pretty sure that the "demos" are indeed just Spun clips...but that would make them studio cuts then, right? ;)

Instrumental clip (my guess is Jesus), Number of the Beast, and Shining Path...yeah, that definitely fits the Spun description.

am i the only one who likes cast a stone? and what about yeah and broken heart?

never before have i seen pumpkin fans so divided.

Maybe I just missed something, but what Shining Path demo is everyone talking about? Was it played over one of the Spun trailers, because all I can remember were Jesus, Number of the Beast, Wasting Time, and another unidentified song.

When you think of this in the sense of a batch of musical dynamos creating a pop juggernaut, can you really disagree with Honestly?

Why doesn't anyone like Love Lies in Ruin?!?!?!?!?!?!?

It's my favorite Zwan song, by far. And I love ...blah blah Broken Heart too. And Cast a Stone. Yeah, I really like Zwan.

And so I died of a broken heart is still the best Zwan song.

I just hope the vast majority of the songs get a studio release, instead of only existing in live form.

Originally posted by ModernCheeze
Maybe I just missed something, but what Shining Path demo is everyone talking about? Was it played over one of the Spun trailers, because all I can remember were Jesus, Number of the Beast, Wasting Time, and another unidentified song.

As far as I know, there never was one that was "circulated" Although, we do know that there were early Zwan demos made: remember the whole "Joe is listening to Zwan demos this week" thing on the Metro site last year? So who knows. Maybe Dave was still leet last November.

Originally posted by Pmack
Aside from the November west coast shows, I haven't listened to any live stuff.
Smart move. :cool:

Originally posted by Cactuar
And so I died of a broken heart is still the best Zwan song.

I dunno if I'd go that far but it's pretty damn good.

IMHO it's not a demo at all, nor from the studio. It seems like it's from the 11/16 show with some sort of phase shifting added. Take a listen to 11/16 and then to the clip of shining path and give me your opinion.

Originally posted by ChoobieWoobie
IMHO it's not a demo at all, nor from the studio. It seems like it's from the 11/16 show with some sort of phase shifting added. Take a listen to 11/16 and then to the clip of shining path and give me your opinion.

Oooh... it's all coming back to me now... Did this clip surface right after the shows? I think I remember it being a big deal for about 30 seconds, until you downloaded it and realized it was fake.

Originally posted by Irrelevant

on 4/05/02 when Jesus started, i was pretty damn elated and excited.
heh, that's how i was.
this girl that was a friend of an o-boarder's was there just as the ride and she was talking to me (i think she liked me), but when Jesus started, I went crazy. I felt so happy during the whole song. God, I love it.

although, I admit, I have alot of the Zwan shows, but haven't listened to them very much.:(

Originally posted by Nate the Grate
Why doesn't anyone like Love Lies in Ruin?!?!?!?!?!?!?

It's my favorite Zwan song, by far. And I love ...blah blah Broken Heart too. And Cast a Stone. Yeah, I really like Zwan.

I like Love Lies In Ruin. It's one of my favorites.

Originally posted by CandyPotter
I think I remember it being a big deal for about 30 seconds, until you downloaded it and realized it was fake.
Dave Asselin got trolled. This is a sad day for us all. :noway:

Dead, would you like a fish stick?

Oooh... it's all coming back to me now... Did this clip surface right after the shows? I think I remember it being a big deal for about 30 seconds, until you downloaded it and realized it was fake.

You can only determine it is a fake if you have some sort of immersion in the original sources. I didn't recognize the track as a fake, because I hadn't heard the live version in about a year.

This all came about because I figured there must be demos or leaked album tracks around somewhere. In fact, I'm about 95% sure that there *are* leaked tracks and some online people have them. I've got a shortlist of about 8 people I could email and ask about them, but I don't have the patience for the 'evasive email dance' anymore, so I figured I'd just poke around and see what I came up with. I made the mistake of trusting the hub with some sort of quality control, but after a few days of looking at it I can see it's just Kaaza with bigger file sizes.

Originally posted by Pmack
Dead, would you like a fish stick?
Dave, I was thinking about it last night (possibly this morning) and came to the conclusion that it must have been you! Nice one, I must say. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Pmack
I made the mistake of trusting the hub with some sort of quality control, but after a few days of looking at it I can see it's just Kaaza with bigger file sizes.

That's funny dave. When I asked you to unshare the mp3 you had of Honestly (to maintain some quality, you know), you called me a fucking idiot.

-Brandon

Originally posted by Brandont_h


That's funny dave. When I asked you to unshare the mp3 you had of Honestly (to maintain some quality, you know), you called me a fucking idiot.

-Brandon

are you kidding? that doesnt sound like our super friendly, un-egotistical daveass at all!

Brandon, you *do* understand the subtle difference between sharing, say, MP3s of the Glasshouse show (which is widely available in a much better format) and immediately sharing an MP3 of a brand-new song that everyone's going to be clamoring to get, right?

My attempt at sharing the MP3 of Honestly was an effort to make the song available to as many people as possible. FTPs get clogged, webapges exceed bandwidth limits, etc. Heaven forbid you promote the sharing of new music to the community instead of a strict adherence to rules. I probably would have shared it for the night and that's it.

You & Dead's stupid demand to me to stop sharing the MP3 is why I went and made a nice 74MB SHN of the original 9MB MP3. Rulez is Rulez!

I look at the hub now and I see that Dead told someone to stop sharing the WMA>MP3>SHN of the superior zwan.com version of Honestly. This is exactly the kind of moronic excuse for "thinking" that buries the world in sush dogshit. Never mind that the rip is completely superior to the FM>SHN, good lord it has MP3 in the lineage! As if FM compression is somehow better than MP3 compression.

I stick by my original assessment of you.

And please, by all means, feel free *not* to trot out the tired comeback "if you don't like it, don't use the hub". I'm on the hub to share the music with others, not to partake in your circle jerk.

Originally posted by Pmack

at least he knows the hub mods to be pure fucking morons. that much is obvious to anyone who's ever been there. chatty no life whores.

Originally posted by Pmack
Dead, would you like a fish stick?


Aww, and you wouldn't let me be one of your "Friends" and buy me some beer :(

-lauren

Originally posted by Pmack

You & Dead's stupid demand to me to stop sharing the MP3 is why I went and made a nice 74MB SHN of the original 9MB MP3. Rulez is Rulez!


Right-the-fuck-on.

Down w/ the anal mods.

Originally posted by Don_Mecca


Right-the-fuck-on.

Down w/ the anal mods.

Don't worry man, Dave and I have already talked and sorted the issue out.

And for the last fucking time, we're not moderators, we're operators. Thus, OPs not MODs.

-Brandon [Waiting for a non-sarcasm-enabled Netphorian to flame me for being anal about the difference between OP and MOD.]

Gee, I wonder if all the people that hate us just happen to be the same jackasses that break the rules repeatedly and then get banned? Naaah...

Excuse me while I go release MP on the hub in wma format.

Originally posted by Pmack
Tim-
I'm not elite anymore...

I don't know if to frown or laugh :confused:

but i will laugh anyways :D

Dave since you aren't elite, leak leak leak..

Originally posted by Pmack
Brandon, you *do* understand the subtle difference between sharing, say, MP3s of the Glasshouse show (which is widely available in a much better format) and immediately sharing an MP3 of a brand-new song that everyone's going to be clamoring to get, right?

My attempt at sharing the MP3 of Honestly was an effort to make the song available to as many people as possible. FTPs get clogged, webapges exceed bandwidth limits, etc. Heaven forbid you promote the sharing of new music to the community instead of a strict adherence to rules. I probably would have shared it for the night and that's it.

You & Dead's stupid demand to me to stop sharing the MP3 is why I went and made a nice 74MB SHN of the original 9MB MP3. Rulez is Rulez!

I look at the hub now and I see that Dead told someone to stop sharing the WMA>MP3>SHN of the superior zwan.com version of Honestly. This is exactly the kind of moronic excuse for "thinking" that buries the world in sush dogshit. Never mind that the rip is completely superior to the FM>SHN, good lord it has MP3 in the lineage! As if FM compression is somehow better than MP3 compression.

I stick by my original assessment of you.

And please, by all means, feel free *not* to trot out the tired comeback "if you don't like it, don't use the hub". I'm on the hub to share the music with others, not to partake in your circle jerk.

Sorry everyone i have to agree with Dave. I hat agreeing with Dave. But WMA -> MP3 is not a big deal.

Don't get me wrong, i know about the lossy crap. But who cares? we are all going have true CD quailty of this soon. probly gonna be ripped into mp3 before SHN.

anyways. just chill. don't fight like the Canadian government They are bad examples on how people should run a country...

I <3 U Dead! :D

Originally posted by MonteLDS


(snip)



Would you shut up, you incoherent fuck?

-Brandon

EDIT: Last post in this thread. Bye bye! (What does the government have to do with fucking filesharing? Nothing. Adieu.)

Originally posted by Brandont_h


Would you shut up...

-Brandon


relax?

Anyway, the WMA->SHN is now being freely shared on the hub. And it sounds muy bueno.

Originally posted by Pmack
You can only determine it is a fake if you have some sort of immersion in the original sources. I didn't recognize the track as a fake, because I hadn't heard the live version in about a year.

This all came about because I figured there must be demos or leaked album tracks around somewhere. In fact, I'm about 95% sure that there *are* leaked tracks and some online people have them.

Makes far more sense now. And, in case you're interested in my naive opinion, you've really missed out... watching them figure out what how they "intend" to present themselves and the music has been super. Allow yourself the acoustic shows from the Midwest last winter, by all means.

I like shinning path!

(then reviews angle the topic has taken)

uh . . .

I like Shinning Path!

And throw on one or two songs from the Dec. 2001 shows (W.P. , Silly Sally, God's Gonna Set This World On Fire are my top choices). They should go with the majority of the songs from when Paz joined. See April 05, 2001 for a good setlist (aisde from that Marline Faithful crap, though) .

Lyric
Cast a Stone
The World Goes Round
For Your Love
Endless Summer
Settle Down
The First Time I Ever Saw Your Face
Jesus, I
Glorious
A New Poetry
(this is the best performance I've ever heard of this song)

alot of those are good pop rock songs, I think they should stick in that direction and throw on the odd "mellow" song (A New Poetry, W.P., Broken Heart, Shinning Path).

Originally posted by Slurpee
Anyway, the WMA->SHN is now being freely shared on the hub. And it sounds muy bueno.
It is? Why the hell is it being shared in SHN. Leave it as the freakin WMA if it must be shared. Besides, as far as I know, whoever made it into a SHN used some crappy conversion method like recording it in cooledit.

THUMBS DOWN

Originally posted by Dead

It is? Why the hell is it being shared in SHN. Leave it as the freakin WMA if it must be shared. Besides, as far as I know, whoever made it into a SHN used some crappy conversion method like recording it in cooledit.

THUMBS DOWN

A SHN of a WMA is stupid. Share the file in WMA (only this file, please) and not a SHN of it, recorded off a soundcard in cool edit, and converted. That's just pointless.

-Brandon