Best opening, impromptu, line of any acceptance speech.

He did a great job, balancing his past with the present, yet focusing on the future.

I've never been a big Kerry fan, but I just gained a lot of respect for him.

"We are not on God's side, but we are on his," was a direct assault which made me get goosebumps.

Your thoughts?

ugh, i have to admit I rolled my eyes when i heard that. rough start for me, but strong middle and end.

Originally posted by sppunk
Best opening, impromptu, line of any acceptance speech.


I thought that was one of the worst opening lines. Too corny, too inappropriate. It would have been better if he had not saluted.

However, the rest of the speech was alright. The domestic policy part of his speech sounded awfully familiar. But hey, now that Edwards is his VP, I guess he can legitimately steal stuff from Edwards' stump speeches.

What we see as corny, though, is what the swing voters will see as true. We hate fakeness and scripted things, but most people don't. People really are simple thinkers guys, keep that in mind.

Originally posted by sppunk
Best opening, impromptu, line of any acceptance speech.

He did a great job, balancing his past with the present, yet focusing on the future.

I've never been a big Kerry fan, but I just gained a lot of respect for him.

"We are not on God's side, but we are on his," was a direct assault which made me get goosebumps.

Your thoughts?

The exact quote was "I don't want to claim that God is on our side. As Abraham Lincoln told us, I want to pray humbly that we are on God's side." Yes it definitely was one of his best lines.

My favorite line was: The future doesn't belong to fear; it belongs to freedom.

Originally posted by Debaser
ugh, i have to admit I rolled my eyes when i heard that. rough start for me, but strong middle and end.

Heh I too like you rolled my eyes, and like BlueStar thought it very corny. However, I agree with sppunk with his above post that Kerry was making the connection for the average American of his fighting in Vietnam for America and the fighting for America he will do in office as President.

He should have started the speech with "Did you know I'm a Vietnam veteran?"

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son
He should have started the speech with "Did you know I'm a Vietnam veteran?"

You really think that's a bad thing? I mean, an election that is based on a war ... I'd choose someone who fought in a war, knows what is needed, etc. over someone who hasn't.

It's like if your picking the next manager at 7/11. You're going to hire the guy who worked at one a few years ago over the guy who has driven past one a few times. I think many will look at it in those (very) simple terms.

Originally posted by sppunk


You really think that's a bad thing? I mean, an election that is based on a war ... I'd choose someone who fought in a war, knows what is needed, etc. over someone who hasn't.

It's like if your picking the next manager at 7/11. You're going to hire the guy who worked at one a few years ago over the guy who has driven past one a few times. I think many will look at it in those (very) simple terms.
You miss the point. Its not about whether its a good or bad thing. Its just the fact that we've heard quite a good bit of Kerry and Vietnam, and it has bordered on the incessant. How many times can someone say the guy served in Vietnam before the point is made?

Originally posted by Corganist You miss the point.
You say that in every post. Please stop.

Originally posted by Corganist Its not about whether its a good or bad thing. Its just the fact that we've heard quite a good bit of Kerry and Vietnam, and it has bordered on the incessant. How many times can someone say the guy served in Vietnam before the point is made?

How many times have we heard the Bush team say Kerry is a waffler? Probably the same, if not more, than Kerry fought in a war. *cue belle & sebastion theme music*

People have an incredibly short attention span. Repetition is necessary in getting points across. You'll hear it constantly until the election, because again, the election is based on a war and who can do best: A man who has fought in a war or one who hasn't.

Originally posted by sppunk


You really think that's a bad thing? I mean, an election that is based on a war ... I'd choose someone who fought in a war, knows what is needed, etc. over someone who hasn't.

It's like if your picking the next manager at 7/11. You're going to hire the guy who worked at one a few years ago over the guy who has driven past one a few times. I think many will look at it in those (very) simple terms. I thought what happened 30 years ago doesn't matter?

Anyway, there are plenty of Vietnam vets. My dad is a Vietnam vet. Would I elect him President? Surely not.

Kerry needs to move on from the one fact that the public seems to know about him.

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son
I thought what happened 30 years ago doesn't matter?

Anyway, there are plenty of Vietnam vets. My dad is a Vietnam vet. Would I elect him President? Surely not.

Kerry needs to move on from the one fact that the public seems to know about him.

That's not based on past events like actions though. It's experience. Being a protestor isn't experience, going to Yale and being in clubs isn't experience. Fighting is.

But, I think he did a good job of becoming "human" with his speech tonight. I sure as hell learned a lot about him that I didn't know.

Originally posted by sppunk

You say that in every post. Please stop.

Its not my fault that there is so much BS to muck through on this board. No one learns anything if they don't have their mistakes pointed out to them. You missed the point. I called you out on it. Enough said.


People have an incredibly short attention span. Repetition is necessary in getting points across. You'll hear it constantly until the election, because again, the election is based on a war and who can do best: A man who has fought in a war or one who hasn't.

See how it works when you're on point? That's a perfectly reasonable explanation for the repeated mentions of Kerry's Vietnam service. I still think they verged on overkill with it, but I can understand your point that repetiton of the fact that he served might somehow boost his credibility on the war issue, something he sorely lacks IMO. But whether or not thats true is a different issue entirely.

Originally posted by sppunk


I've never been a big Kerry fan, but I just gained a lot of respect for him.

"We are not on God's side, but we are on his," was a direct assault which made me get goosebumps.




I felt the same way. I gained a lot of resepct for him, and I actually LIKE him now. Before last night, I wasn't on board, even with Edwards on the ticket. But durign teh speech, I found myself smiling quite a bit and nodding my head. I really enjoyed 90% of it. He's not the greatest speaker in the world (he's no Clinton and he's no Edwards) but damn that was one hell of a speech.

Please, Republicans, stop making false dichotomies. Stop it. You guys are the fucking masters of seeing everything in black and white.

Some things that happened 30 years ago are relevant to this campaign. THe fact that John Kerry served in Vietnam and in the US military is totally relevant to this campaign because he is running for Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces in a time of war, in a time when US soliders are getting killed every week and the "backdoor draft" is fucking our Reservists.

The fact that George W. Bush snorted cocaine 30 years ago is not relevant. The fact that George W. Bush was an alcoholic 30 years ago is not relevant. The fact that John Kerry voted for certain shit in the Senate 30 years ago is not relevant. These are just all examples of incendiery bullshit that one party can use against another party.

Originally posted by sppunk
What we see as corny, though, is what the swing voters will see as true. We hate fakeness and scripted things, but most people don't. People really are simple thinkers guys, keep that in mind.

This is true. And, like I said, I wouldn't have thought it as bad if he hadn't have saluted. The salute, actually, really offended a lot of voters...as was displayed by voter feedback on the news channels this morning.

Originally posted by sppunk


You really think that's a bad thing? I mean, an election that is based on a war ... I'd choose someone who fought in a war, knows what is needed, etc. over someone who hasn't.

It's like if your picking the next manager at 7/11. You're going to hire the guy who worked at one a few years ago over the guy who has driven past one a few times. I think many will look at it in those (very) simple terms.

exactly.

and really, i thought the way he smiled in the opening line was intended as "ha, like you don't already know i'm a veteran"

kerry made a funny

Originally posted by BlueStar


I thought that was one of the worst opening lines. Too corny, too inappropriate. It would have been better if he had not saluted.

However, the rest of the speech was alright. The domestic policy part of his speech sounded awfully familiar. But hey, now that Edwards is his VP, I guess he can legitimately steal stuff from Edwards' stump speeches.

I used to be able to stand your posts becuase you'd give insight in political threads, but you're just an Edwards PR person now and I can't take you seriously. How irritating.

he should have just said holla

"My name is John Kerry, and I'm reporting for duty."

perhaps if Mr. Paper-Mache hadn't opened up his big erudite mouth with this opener, his record wouldn't be under such scrutiny.

say what you want about the issue of his tour of duty...its an issue that has wings not just legs. He hasnt played it particularly well and now he's starting to mire in it...not good for the campaign. period.

Originally posted by The Omega Concern


perhaps if Mr. Paper-Mache hadn't opened up his big erudite mouth with this opener, his record wouldn't be under such scrutiny.

say what you want about the issue of his tour of duty...its an issue that has wings not just legs. He hasnt played it particularly well and now he's starting to mire in it...not good for the campaign. period.

his war record was already under attack before he said that, stupid. remember the stupid ribbon vs medal controversy?

Originally posted by Debaser


his war record was already under attack before he said that, stupid. remember the stupid ribbon vs medal controversy? You mean when Kerry contradicted himself repeatedly? Yup.

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son
You mean when Kerry contradicted himself repeatedly? Yup.

If it has already been explained that for those in the military the terms are interchangeable, how is this a contradiction? The ribbons are representative of their medals. Ribbon = medals.

People really are simple thinkers guys, keep that in mind.

People have an incredibly short attention span. Repetition is necessary in getting points across.

Come on man, that's like saying everyone is dumb and can't think for themselfs. No one likes the repetition that's going on in the Kerry campaign. Hell I still don't know how he plans on fixing anything. What I do know is that he was in Vietnam (big deal), he's for the war (maby he should go fight it since he's fucking Rambo), he's against gay marriage (that pisses me off), and he's against universal health care (that really pisses me off).

Being a protestor isn't experience,

Being a protester is experience, it's being active in our government. Try saying that to someone who fought for civil rights. As a matter of fact, Kerry was so experienced at it that it freaked out Nixon.

jen

Originally posted by Future Boy


If it has already been explained that for those in the military the terms are interchangeable, how is this a contradiction? The ribbons are representative of their medals. Ribbon = medals. I wish I had the .wav file handy, but I have heard audio of an interview where he said he threw away medals and the reporter asked him if they were the Purple Hearts and Bronze star and he responded to say "those and above and beyond" (I am paraphrasing.)

Anyway, I don't think this is an important issue, I just think it's a stupid thing to lie about.

Originally posted by dreamsofdali




Come on man, that's like saying everyone is dumb


themselfs
maby:rofl:

originally posted by debaser:

his war record was already under attack before he said that, stupid. remember the stupid ribbon vs medal controversy

shut the fuck up...and fucking synthesize some information so you don't look like such an ass telling me I'm stupid.

I'm well aware of the genesis of the issue but the controversy has only been flamed by Kerry for fronting his service some 30 years ago into this campaign. A front which was firmly supplanted into the electorate consciousness by his opening line at the DNC not the trickling of news the issue was beforehand.

He's not a good Presidential campaigner, and its showing.

Of course, in my opinion, he's also a shallow, narciccistic gold-digger who pretty much faked 3 purple hearts to get out of service to then stab his former military mates in the back in front of congress soon after his dismissal.

But if you hate Bush that much...then vote for the dork.

Originally posted by The Omega Concern



catch-22. If kerry didn't start talking about vietnam then the right would have started screaming that he's ducking the issue!

god, you are such a dumbfuck.

stop drinking the koo-aid. stop watching foxnews.

Originally posted by The Omega Concern


Of course, in my opinion, he's also a shallow, narciccistic gold-digger who pretty much faked 3 purple hearts to get out of service to then stab his former military mates in the back in front of congress soon after his dismissal.
Well not everyone can be born into money and just not show up for their National Guard duty to get out of going to war...

Originally posted by Pumpkins23836
Well not everyone can be born into money and just not show up for their National Guard duty to get out of going to war... Actually, and this is rarely reported, George Bush COULD NOT have gone to Vietnam. At the time of the war, his father was the Director of the CIA. Immediate family of those is sensitive government positions are generally barred from overseas combat to avoid the threat of capture and hostage taking.

Whoa, he stupidly dodged something he didnt need to.